The floods

Totally_Baffled · Post by **Totally_Baffled** » 24 Jul 2007, 15:36

If the current floods where on a similiar scale in the US, what would of the outcome of been?

The reason I ask is, that people seem to be pulling together quite well, despite the worst floods in history.

What would of been the result in a exact same circumstances but in the US?

I didnt want to use New Orleans as a comparison as the scale was far worse? (or was it?)

Post by **clv101** » 24 Jul 2007, 16:32

Totally_Baffled wrote:If the current floods where on a similiar scale in the US, what would of the outcome of been?

The reason I ask is, that people seem to be pulling together quite well, despite the worst floods in history.

What would of been the result in a exact same circumstances but in the US?

I didnt want to use New Orleans as a comparison as the scale was far worse? (or was it?)

After Katrina millions of people were affected - 1,000 died! If this was in the US I doubt we'd even have heard about it. It isn't really that bad in the grand scheme of things.

Totally_Baffled · Post by **Totally_Baffled** » 24 Jul 2007, 17:04

After Katrina millions of people were affected - 1,000 died!

Yes - hence my caveat! below!

I didnt want to use New Orleans as a comparison as the scale was far worse? (or was it?)

What I was trying to ask (although very badly) , was if we are better at dealing with this sort of thing than say the yanks?

Or are all nations pretty much as bad as each other?

Does our type of housing, infrastructure etc etc give us more of an advantage of dealing with this sort of thing?

Just interested on what people think?

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 24 Jul 2007, 17:44

Population of New Orleans = half a million or put another way 500 000

Only a fifth of New Orleans' population of half a million has returned since the mass evacuations in the wake of the 29 August hurricane and subsequent flooding of the city.

from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4604204.stm

Without running water in UK 350 000

Emergency services are battling to deliver supplies to the 350,000 people across Gloucestershire who have been without running water since Sunday

from:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6913752.stm

Perhaps the scale is similar afterall?
Of course the flooding was more gradual in UK meaning fewer lives at risk. Also the number for UK is for those without water rather than those made homeless by floods.
But this is still pretty big.

Post by **clv101** » 24 Jul 2007, 18:14

Naw... 'cos Katrina affected far more than just the city of New Orleans - and the vast majority of those 350,000 without water in the UK are without flood as well, life is normal, going to work etc... just the mains water isn't running. No real comparison.

aliwood · Post by **aliwood** » 24 Jul 2007, 19:19

Copying this from the Netweather forum again

dogs32
Group: Members
Posts: 1,029
Joined: 23-June 05
From: cheltenham (glos)
Member No.: 3,696

Thats what I was realy worried about.
Some kids are letting the Bowsers run out of water by leaving the taps on.
I tried to get in BBQ today...I just gave up.Police controlling the area.
They say 4 litres a day....lol...but the ques are out this world and the shops cant cope.
Makes me lol the TV....A woman bit another woman in a super market yeserday.......A fight broke out in another lol...crazy yea..
In a few days people will get realy peaved off...Some already....14 days or is it going to be longer.
Some people have drove to Bristol to get certain things because they couldnt find it here.
Petrol another thing....major panick buying ohmy.gif

Jane Louise
Posts: 355
Joined: 23-February 06
From: Tredington,Tewks, Gloucestershire
Member No.: 5,519

Hi dogs
We still have water here . I want a shower but not sure if I'm allowed lol.Will probably ring Severn trent to see if we are allowed to use our water!Hope you is okay?

dogs32
Posts: 1,029
Joined: 23-June 05
From: cheltenham (glos)
Member No.: 3,696

QUOTE(Jane Louise @ 24 Jul 2007, 06:43 PM) *
Hi dogs
We still have water here . I want a shower but not sure if I'm allowed lol.Will probably ring Severn trent to see if we are allowed to use our water!Hope you is okay?

Jane who would of thought you would still have water......the gods must be shining on you.....Jane its not nice.Cant have a coffee when I wont one.
Or bath.or wash your hair....have to be realy carefull....Jane your blessed.......how much do you wont to sell your taps...lololol
Jane I felt like the Gloucestershire Echo here lol
ILL give you all my guitars for the water..lol...MADMAX movies lol
In a weeks time I sell my sports car for 1 ton of water
any offers

Some people may be pulling together but now more stupidity has broken out. I think this post worried me the most, realising that every worst case scenario we have been forecasting is starting to appear.

doom, doom, doom.

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 24 Jul 2007, 20:21

Totally_Baffled wrote:If the current floods where on a similiar scale in the US, what would of the outcome of been?

The reason I ask is, that people seem to be pulling together quite well, despite the worst floods in history.

What would of been the result in a exact same circumstances but in the US?

I didnt want to use New Orleans as a comparison as the scale was far worse? (or was it?)

The emergency services, including RAF, Navy and Coast guard did repond quickly here in the UK. The major fault seems to have been that the warning issued by the Met office wasn't acted upon quicky enough by the environment agency. hence the story of the portable flood defences - stored 20 miles away from intended point of use (DUH!) not being available... due to flooding..

If you remember, the major problem in New Orleans was the length of time it took before the federal govt actually did anything. FEMA- hopeless and led by an incompetent crony of the president, G.Bush trying his best to ignore what was going on off on a GOP fundraiser ,playing guitar on stage the day after the levees breached. Then all sorts of nonsensical turf disputes and legalisms between local, state and federal levels which slowed up the relief effort.

and least we forget...they're having a spot of bother in China at the moment, slightly more serious that what the UK is experiencing

http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&ned ... earch+News

Totally_Baffled · Post by **Totally_Baffled** » 24 Jul 2007, 21:21

Changing the thread direction slightly...

Hoarding

What can we do about hoarding?

One of the first things that happens as a result of 'shortage', regardless of the cause , is hoarding.

The irony of which, is that it makes shortages worse! lol

Now given that we are coming up to one big fat 'shortage' (peak oil), what measures can be implemented to prevent hoarding?

After all , I dont think it is too strong to say that, if there is something accelerates societal collapse its hoarding.

For example , after things have returned to normal you will inevitably have thousands of people who have a massive surplus of bottled water - and those that had bugger all throughout the whole event!

So in terms of peak oil - or even a sudden event that causes an interruption in fuel production/availability, should the government not collaborate with major supermarkets so that basic goods are strictly rationed to counter blatent hoarding and further potential disastrous shortages of basic foods/water?

Similiarly with petrol - surely the first thing that should happen is some sort of maximum amount is allowed to be purchased. Anything to prevent a gap in the supply chain of such a vital commodity.

This would allow a surplus available for essential services?

I am juggling ideas around ad hoc here so help me out !

I think you all know where I am coming from

What do you lot think?

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 24 Jul 2007, 21:36

Totally_Baffled wrote:After all , I dont think it is too strong to say that, if there is something accelerates societal collapse its hoarding.

I think we should re-term this specific type of hoarding as PANIC BUYING. The reason being those who have "hoarded" before the event will not actually need to rush out in a panic.

"Stocked up in preparation" is totally different to "panic buying".

In reality the population should be encouraged to have a week's supply of essentials always available in their houses. This way the panic issue is lessened.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 24 Jul 2007, 21:53

It's very difficult to hoard much petrol.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 24 Jul 2007, 23:29

In the nineteen seventies in response to the OPEC crisis, Peter Walker (then Secretary of the DTI) told the House of Commons that millions of petrol rationing books were being printed. Drivers would be required to collect them from post offices.

He went on to inform MP's that rationing wasn't being introduced immediately but that the Government had to be ready. He said there were no shortages in the amount of crude oil coming to Britain but there was a worldwide shortage of refined oil products.

In the event, the ration books were introduced, albeit never used and a blanket speed of 50 mph was introduced that lasted many months in an attempt to reduce consumption.

I know. I remember 'plodding' up and down the A2 in Kent for what seemed like an eternity.

My point? Governments can easily introduce what seem to be very draconian contingency plans when required.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 25 Jul 2007, 08:22

Good post Aurora - I expect the Govt will indeed introduce petrol rationing very quickly. I can see police in all major supermarkets too - just to stop the fighting over short supplies. We will all adjust quickly. My mother was a nurse in N Ireland during the seventies when there was the "Workers strike" - petrol was rationed then. I remember her having to go to predefined petrol stations to get a fill-up of petrol in the middle of the night - this was the way they prevented trouble in those days.

Change is coming folks. We should get used to it quite quickly at the start - until it bites a bit more deeply into normality, then the "fun" will begin...

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 25 Jul 2007, 08:24

Remember the Emergency booklet that was posted to every household in the UK after 911? I think from memory it recommended that every household have 2 weeks supply of food and water - must dig it out again...... You see the govt. have been trying to help us prepare!

Totally_Baffled · Post by **Totally_Baffled** » 25 Jul 2007, 09:07

biffvernon wrote:It's very difficult to hoard much petrol.

Sally/Biff - I have my terminology mixed up again of course you are correct.

Reference petrol , I guess I mean topping up small amounts at every opportunity, rather than actual hoarding of petrol

Post by **mikepepler** » 25 Jul 2007, 09:34

Interesting comment here from the Independent:
http://environment.independent.co.uk/cl ... 798519.ece

And it emerged last night that in the event of the flooding of Walham power station ? which escaped being hit by waters from the Severn by two inches in the early hours of yesterday ? ministers had drawn up plans to carry out evacuations in Cheltenham and Gloucester.

So it looks like the government believed that no water and no elec was a recipe for social chaos of one form or another - evacuating two whole towns is pretty major!

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The floods

The floods

Re: The floods

Re: The floods

Re: The floods