The UK needs a civil defence organisation.

[adam2]

In my view, the UK needs a proper civil defence organisation, to assist in large scale disasters and emergencies.

The emphasis should be on large stocks of basic supplies, equipment and materials. Including but not limited to the following.
Tents, large and small for emergency housing, temporary medical facilities, and the like.
Folding beds, blankets. portable toilets, and supplies.
Heavy duty vehicles, such as trucks with fold down seats.
Earth moving machines, for flood defences and mass graves.
Basic fire engines, for large fires, and for emergency water supply. Large stocks of fire hose.
Boats, inflatable and rigid hulled unsinkable boats.

Basic building and repair materials, ropes, tarps, timber, scaffolding, etc.

Portable lighting equipment, electric, oil, and LPG.
Portable heaters, electric and LPG.
Generators, just perhaps three standard sizes, 10 KVA, 50 KVA, and 150 KVA. electric cables.
Air conditioners, large fans.
Basic medical supplies.
Simple and basic but large scale catering equipment, LPG or electric water boilers, large cooking pots, catering size cookers.

Basic non perishable foods, sugar, salt, grain, tea and coffee, milk powder, potato powder, canned meat, edible fats and oils.
Water treatment equipment, mugs, plates, cutlery.

Fuel, including petrol, diesel, paraffin, LPG cylinders, coal.

A relatively small full time staff would be needed, to look after the equipment, maintain, and test. It is fairly easy to obtain extra manpower in an emergency.
Obtaining say 100 large tents, 1,000 folding beds, and 5,000 blankets at very short notice is almost impossible without already having stocks of such items.

Such a civil defence organisation could be run as part of the Army, with higher value goods being stored on military bases to protect against theft. Full time civil defence staff should be trained in use of weapons, but not be routinely armed. It is after all CIVIL defence.

Goods that are becoming outdated or obsolete should if possible be utilised by the prison service, the NHS, or the rest of the armed forces.
Supplies should be simple and robust with a long shelf life.
As just one example, air beds perish and aquire leaks and punctures. A folding bed with a metal frame and nylon canvas should keep for least 100 years. (each year test 5% of the folding beds, if this reveals any significant degrading in storage, test and examine the entire stock)

[RenewableCandy]

I always think of the Army as doing a lot of this kind of stuff. Historically here in York the Gurkhas in our local barracks help us when it floods.

However, the barracks is being shut due to some cost-cutting or other so we now (probably) have a lot less help during floods - which are pretty well once a year these days.

[adam2]

The ongoing flood disaster in Mainland Europe should perhaps concentrate the minds of our leaders and reinforce the importance of a robust civil defence organisation in case of large scale flooding or other disaster.

Something similar could happen here, and probably will.

[Vortex2]

We usd to have a major CD system ... but is was terminated 20+ years ago.

MAFF used to have huge warehouses around the country where basic foodstuffs were stored.
The contents were held a few months and then shipped out for sale before going off.

Antibiotics & paracetamol were routed through these places and then sold.
Trucks would come on a regular basis to provide fresh stock and to remove stale stock for sale.

Booze and chocolate were also stored .. for use as currency post-WW3 to pay workers.

One of these places was sited in a large concrete above-ground bunker-like building at an off-site lab of Reading University.
Also, I believe one of my neigbours bought one of the huge MAFF barns for his own use.
They dismantled it and then rerected it nearby.

[clv101]

All very reasonable wrt cold war thinking. What's not reasonable is to think we are dramatically more secure now than in the 70s and 80s. I think a reasonable case can be made that the threat of nuclear war is not greatly diminished, in fact I think it was over hyped throughout the latter half of the cold war and it's under hyped today.

In addition to that obvious threat, there's a new range of threats. Whilst not the fire and brimstone of a nuclear war, cyber war, taking out the 'net and power grids hugely damaging, a viral pandemic just a little bit more deadly than Covid would take out civil infrastructure by folk simply being too afraid to go to work etc.

For the fairly modest cost to maintaining such 'buffers' in the supply chain I think it would be well justified given the current risk profile.

Welcome back V.

[kenneal - lagger]

I presume the thinking behind disbanding civil defence was that if a war started that required a Civil Defence force it would progress to nuclear very quickly and there could be no civil defence against a war of that sort. The people in the nuclear bunkers would have their own life support systems and everyone else would either die instantly or very quickly leaving just a few "essential workers" possibly with their families in nuclear bunkers. And they would probably die soon after through lack of survival skills in a world where all civilisation was gone. I'm not sure that there would be many "centres of government" bunkers left either.

With new scenarios opening up for civil defence such as a pandemic there is now a case for restarting the civil defence capability but with the present government they might not be willing to fund it. Leave it to the market to provide was the mantra although they seemed to be moving away from that a little with covid and the level of support that has been given. My daughter, who has a degree in health and "something else" in disaster management, was heavily involved in preparing our local council response to the covid crisis preparing all the policy documents which a local authority needs to function. She got out as soon as she could as she became the go to person in the whole council as she was about the only person in management who knew what they were doing, or should be doing! She was working well above her pay grade in a management role. She ended up representing the council in the emergency response to a major train disaster a few years ago when the two bosses in line above her were on holiday at the same time, against policy, and she was next in line despite her lowly pay grade. Most local authorities are short on people with required experience or even theoretical knowledge of what to do. I suspect most of the country is which is why the army gets called in so often.

[Catweazle]

A "Civil Preparedness" organisation might be more useful. Friendly classes and demonstrations in village halls. Womens Institute and Neighbourhood Watch, more recently the Mens Shed movement, might be a good place to start recruiting - community minded people with spare time.

The classes could include fitness, first aid, food safety, energy saving and much more.

[adam2]

A "Civil Preparedness" organisation might be more useful. Friendly classes and demonstrations in village halls. Womens Institute and Neighbourhood Watch, more recently the Mens Shed movement, might be a good place to start recruiting - community minded people with spare time.

The classes could include fitness, first aid, food safety, energy saving and much more.

Whilst I can see the merits of this, it is not in my view a substitute for a large and well stocked civil defence organisation.
If a significant number of people have to be evacuated due to a large natural or man made disaster, improved fitness and knowledge helps a bit, but the primary need is for tented accommodation, and equipment to heat and light this, together with feeding and watering THOUSANDS of evacuees.

[kenneal - lagger]

.....................
If a significant number of people have to be evacuated due to a large natural or man made disaster, improved fitness and knowledge helps a bit, but the primary need is for tented accommodation, and equipment to heat and light this, together with feeding and watering THOUSANDS of evacuees.

A few village halls, sports and conference centres would be a better bet in this country. That seems to be what gets used in other countries such as the US. Much of the equipment would still be needed though, just no the tents.

[adam2]

.....................
If a significant number of people have to be evacuated due to a large natural or man made disaster, improved fitness and knowledge helps a bit, but the primary need is for tented accommodation, and equipment to heat and light this, together with feeding and watering THOUSANDS of evacuees.

A few village halls, sports and conference centres would be a better bet in this country. That seems to be what gets used in other countries such as the US. Much of the equipment would still be needed though, just not the tents.

I agree.

[adam2]

The recent extreme winds in the North East and consequent power cuts and other disruption, have IMO underlined the need for a proper civil defence organisation.

[emordnilap]

We have Storm Barra arriving tomorrow, wish us luck.

These storms usually don't affect my area much, they get worse weather in the counties to the north and south of us.

Indeed, 2021's weather has been noticeably quieter for us. The phrase 'calm before the storm' comes to mind.

[kenneal - lagger]

Let's hope you don't have reason to regret tempting fate in the next few days, Em!

[emordnilap]

Let's hope you don't have reason to regret tempting fate in the next few days, Em!

Loads of firewood, a good stock of grub, plenty of potable water stored, a few solar lamps, some headtorches with back-up batteries. We'll last a short while yet.

[adam2]

All very reasonable wrt cold war thinking. What's not reasonable is to think we are dramatically more secure now than in the 70s and 80s. I think a reasonable case can be made that the threat of nuclear war is not greatly diminished, in fact I think it was over hyped throughout the latter half of the cold war and it's under hyped today.

In addition to that obvious threat, there's a new range of threats. Whilst not the fire and brimstone of a nuclear war, cyber war, taking out the 'net and power grids hugely damaging, a viral pandemic just a little bit more deadly than Covid would take out civil infrastructure by folk simply being too afraid to go to work etc.

For the fairly modest cost to maintaining such 'buffers' in the supply chain I think it would be well justified given the current risk profile.

Welcome back V.

Even more relevant now !
Since the above was posted we have seen Russia invade Ukraine, massive increases in energy costs, a considerable loss of edible oil and wheat production in Ukraine, and now a physical attack on fiber optic data cables in France.