New coronavirus in/from China

[Little John]

Today, I'll fess up that I breached da rulz.

I was in the outdoors for a whopping 2.5, maybe 3 hours. In that time, a fellow allotmenteer approached (wanting to help) as I was moving the pallets onto my wheelbarrow. But he backed away. Half hour job.

This afternoon, walked the three dogs including a near neighbours who has limited mobility. We've had the distancing routine well sorted on handover for the past six weeks or so. Not least because she's a care home nurse.

First dog needs to run on a training lead in an open park, way too boisterous to walk with the others. While in that park, saw one sat doing nowt (harmless), but others sat on park benches (only the open air gym has been fenced off)

Second walk - the next dog pulls like a train, but is manageable with our friend's spaniel because I use a walker belt and harness. Walked them across dry farmland rather than the beaten track used by others - was unusual to see anyone out unless they have a dog - until now... but eat a hasty retreat on the concrete 6m wide farm track part of the walk when four yoofs abreast approached. They looked like some 80s pop video posers. Advised a guy on a mountain bike (who was mutually avoiding me) to steer clear of them as there was a 5% risk one of them was infected... Really? Cheers then mate...

Then, the last walk with our third dog. Also solitary. Saw someone in the distance open and shut the metal farm gate - but.. there's an unobstructed side entrance.

It's not duration outdoors. It's distance from people. And touching stuff other people use.

To be fair, I can see why they do specify an hour. Because in a city, there would be far too many idiots in close proximity met, even in that time.

I'm going up my allotment to see to my bees, tend to my veg plot and keep the brambles down and F--k anyone who tries to stop me form spending as long there as I need to.

My only sadness is that I am a lucky bugger in having an allotment and lots of folks do not.

[clv101]

So please show me how my walking for two hours and interacting with absolutely nobody is failing in my duty to protect myself and others?

It's all about keeping the instructions simple and understandable. And it's about risk. If YOU go for a two hour walk without interacting with anyone, fine - but if everyone attempts that, not even remotely fine. I saw good photo recently of a stile or gate, on a footpath saying some 200 people touched that gate daily whilst on their 'isolated' walks.

[Little John]

So please show me how my walking for two hours and interacting with absolutely nobody is failing in my duty to protect myself and others?

It's all about keeping the instructions simple and understandable. And it's about risk. If YOU go for a two hour walk without interacting with anyone, fine - but if everyone attempts that, not even remotely fine. I saw good photo recently of a stile or gate, on a footpath saying some 200 people touched that gate daily whilst on their 'isolated' walks.

fine if you live in a big house, a nice house, a house with a garden, a house in a nice area. Not so fine if you live on minimum income in a rabbit hutch in the middle of an urban sprawl. Same old same old aint it. Those who have virtue signalling to the rest of us who have not. Remind me how that went over the last 3 years....

[eatyourveg]

Yes well I guess I'm chucking my vote in with Vortex on this one.

These are exceptional times and exceptional measures are being taken, with more most certainly on the way. These things need to happen. It's not going to bother some and it will drive others crazy. It wasn't a planned event, it just happened. We are all having to stick with whatever position we were on on the chessboard when this really kicked off. My sympathies are very much with families with young children stuck in cramped accommodation, it'll be helllish, and anyone who isn't in a position to have some connection with nature.

[Little John]

https://colemoreton.com/2020/04/05/lockdown/

I’ve been thinking about class. Or rather, wealth. If you have a flat with a garden, or a house with a garden, or a large house with a garden, or several large houses with large gardens including one in the country such as a minister of state might have, it is really not so hard to isolate. Your flatmate or your friend or your partner or your housekeeper or your maid or your permanent under-secretary might bring out a cup of tea and leave it at a respectful distance, in accordance with governmental guidelines, while you sit with your head back and your face to the sun, soaking up rays this afternoon. You might even feel a flash of the joy of Spring, on an unexpectedly fine, still and warm day. And you might read about the people who are filling the parks of the cities and give a little frown, or think of writing a letter or posting a Tweet or issuing a statement or making an order or calling a chief constable or closing a park, or several parks, to stop this dangerous behaviour, for the benefit of all at this difficult time when what matters above all is to stop Coronavirus. You might think, why can’t people stay home? Don’t they realise how dangerous this is? And you might close your eyes, feeling satisfied with the thought or the action or the order or the decree, and drift away into a pleasant slumber. But if you live in a flat that has no garden, or a shared flat in which you have just the one room, or a room you share with someone else, or a room you share with your family or your extended family, and the flat is cramped and the windows don’t open, or if they do they open on a fetid space between walls or the thundering, half-broken ventilation system from the chicken shop downstairs or you share your tiny, claustrophobic space with someone who hates you or hits you because you have nowhere else to go, then you might stumble outside on a day like this, gasping for air, head in a vice, soul thirsting for the wide sky, and make for the park, to get some rest, some space, some release some escape. Some breath, just for a while. And you might think of the police who moved you on from a bench there yesterday and decide to risk it today because you need to be out, you need to be somewhere else, with an urgency and a desperation that would frighten you if you could think or feel at all. And you might remember the sweet freedom of the moment you lay back and closed your eyes and drifted away in slumber, before the officer shook you and woke you and told you to move on. So you might stagger to the park, heart racing. And you might find it closed, by order of the minister. The one who was a success in business or the law before he entered politics. The one who has a fine home, or several fine homes with gardens. The one who was saying, just a few days ago, that it was important for everyone to be able to get out and exercise even in this lockdown. The one who has no idea of your tears, your fears, your frustration, your despair as you grip the iron gate that bars your way to the one open space available to you in the fevered city. The one who is at home in the garden, half-listening to birdsong as he slowly, slowly drifts away.

[Vortex2]

Hello!

[BritDownUnder]

UK 61,400 cases 7,110 deaths
Aus 6,000 cases 50 deaths

Remember our case count is much, much higher than 61,400. Maybe in the ~3% ball park, ~2 million.

Clearly the testing in the UK is very low. I think the media is saying as such. But on that raw data the UK has a 10% fatality rate and Australia has about 1%. Perhaps the US numbers are about right for both deaths and cases.

I have heard it said in the Australian media that the test used here gives false negatives. It is an antibody test that can tell if you have had the virus supposedly.

Whatever the testing the infection rate in Australia for 25 million people seems very low. Either the government travel bans came in early, the spread is just lower for some reason or the people are more resilient to the virus. We will just have to wait and see.

On a rare trip to the still open supermarket the carpark was full so I went to a smaller IGA (like a Coop in the UK) supermarket to get my break. I was quite surprised by the high mask usage especially among the elderly.

[UndercoverElephant]

Can the Euro survive Covid-19?

This article explains the scale of the problem:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/03/23/1 ... armageddon

The question is how many trillions of euros will be needed to bail out eurozone countries. 3tn? 5tn?

And tonight...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... escue-plan

These are big disagreements. Potentially existential ones for the EU. But £540bn won't even touch the sides.

We could be looking at the beginning of the end for the EU.

[Little John]

The EU is going to go bust by this time next year. We need to be finished with any negotiations yesterday otherwise we are going to be on the hook for Christ knows what liabilities.

[Mean Mr Mustard II]

Keeping rules simple and understandable -

Keep your distance from everyone. And don't touch anything other people use.

Distance, not duration. How difficult is that? Bear in mind that I'm also (both of us being diabetic and having seen all this a mile off in common with everyone else here - still trying to work out when it's safe-ish to replenish the larder, because all shops are dangerous, while the open fields and allotment I'm lucky to have near here are safe.

But we've seen Crufts and the Gold Cup and Madrid v Liverpool all given the go-ahead. Some Welsh Minister plank talking about enforcing two metre rules, while shoulder to shoulder with his colleagues. Packed press conferences in Westminster... And Police congregating in groups of three, four, or more. All assuming their authority confers immunity.

[clv101]

The EU is going to go bust by this time next year. We need to be finished with any negotiations yesterday otherwise we are going to be on the hook for Christ knows what liabilities.

On the hook? The tealeaves are suggesting UK might be one of, if not the most badly affected country in Europe. We'll be in need of EU help rather than vice versa.

[clv101]

Here's a fascinating 14 minute listen. Maybe 'we' are being far too quick to put people on ventlators?

https://emcrit.org/emcrit/stop-kneejerk-intubation/

[Catweazle]

It's easy for people living on smallholdings, or large houses with big gardens to moan about people ignoring the "curfew" but imagine being cooped up with your spouse and teenaged, bored kids in a flat with no garden, for weeks. Horrible.

Obviously there are risks to the population when people venture out, but there are also risks in keeping people bottled up - creating an environment that could have serious implications for those peoples relationships, permanently.

People may start to regard their inner-city flat as a prison cell rather than a home - that's really damaging to peoples quality of life.

[adam2]

It's easy for people living on smallholdings, or large houses with big gardens to moan about people ignoring the "curfew" but imagine being cooped up with your spouse and teenaged, bored kids in a flat with no garden, for weeks. Horrible.

Obviously there are risks to the population when people venture out, but there are also risks in keeping people bottled up - creating an environment that could have serious implications for those peoples relationships, permanently.

People may start to regard their inner-city flat as a prison cell rather than a home - that's really damaging to peoples quality of life.

I agree, and for the reasons given above, I would slightly relax and clarify the rules as follows.
"Anyone may visit public open spaces for the purposes of rest, relaxation, or exercise, without limit on number of visits, or time spent on each visit, subject to the following.
1) Social distancing of at least 2 meters to be maintained, except for persons of the same household.
2) Travel to and from the public open space must be on foot, by bicycle, or by other human powered transport. Use of public transport or motor vehicles is prohibited for travel to or from public open spaces.
3) Any pre-existing rules, regulations, and byelaws applicable to the public open space remain unaltered."

Explanatory notes for lawyers, pedants, and PCSOs.
"public open spaces" includes private property to which the public are admitted by permission, examples include parks and gardens owned by the National Trust.
"Public open spaces" includes beaches, foreshores and similar places to which the public customarily have access.
"Public open spaces" does NOT include buildings to which the public customarily have access, such as railway stations.

[fuzzy]

So please show me how my walking for two hours and interacting with absolutely nobody is failing in my duty to protect myself and others?

It's all about keeping the instructions simple and understandable. And it's about risk. If YOU go for a two hour walk without interacting with anyone, fine - but if everyone attempts that, not even remotely fine. I saw good photo recently of a stile or gate, on a footpath saying some 200 people touched that gate daily whilst on their 'isolated' walks.

Sort of. It's all about giving every one the same message - ie politics. This is a disease of urban areas. Public transport, airports, high pop density. They aren't going to spell it out or all the chelsea tractor wnkers will go to their 2nd homes and drag it with them to our little towns. Countries with lower pop densities and restricted migrants will fare better, even in cities, where people have bungalows, gardens, wide streets etc.
This is an airborne virus. I have been suprmarket shopping 3 times in the last 2 weeks. Everytime after, I have a throat tickle and mucus/sinus for 1/2 a day. That is not hay fever - we are close to countryside. If that had been a heavy inoculation I would be sick.