Brexit process

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 21 Oct 2017, 16:35

UndercoverElephant wrote:The EU sees making sure the UK pays a heavy price for leaving the EU as its number one priority.

What is your analysis of the financial issues?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 21 Oct 2017, 20:50

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:The EU sees making sure the UK pays a heavy price for leaving the EU as its number one priority.
What is your analysis of the financial issues?

What is your analysis of the political issues?

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 21 Oct 2017, 21:10

Little John wrote:What is your analysis of the political issues?

There are two aspects to this.

What is politically popular ... and

What is true.

What is true is that the world is divided substantially into continental trade groups. Each continent has trade associations that define the rules for trade on that continent. For Europe it is the EU. It is better to be part of setting those rules than having just to follow them.

What is politically popular is that people like to blame "Brussels" for anything they don't like (even if the CJEU is in Luxembourg).

Around the world there are people who get political support as a result of blaming "others". Such is life.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 21 Oct 2017, 22:19

Ah... I see.

Economics - especially if based on your preferred model of economics - is "reality"

Whereas politics - especially politics you don't like - is "make believe"

Right?

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 22 Oct 2017, 20:31

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:The EU sees making sure the UK pays a heavy price for leaving the EU as its number one priority.
What is your analysis of the financial issues?

Leaving the EU is likely to economically painful, and in the short term, leaving without a deal is likely to be even more painful. In the longer term, both will eventually be economically beneficial.

Can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

At the end of the day this is actually about sovereignty and self-determination. It may be the case that it is better, economically, to be the in the EU, but better in myriad other ways to retain full sovereignty. Given the current bigger picture, I'd choose independence over brute economics.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 23 Oct 2017, 00:14

Slavery was based on "economic reality"

Until it wasn't

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 23 Oct 2017, 16:28

UndercoverElephant wrote:I'd choose independence over brute economics.

The difficulty with this analysis is that we are still likely to have to follow quite a lot of the EU rules anyway.

No-one, for example, is suggesting that EU residents will need a visa to come to he UK

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 23 Oct 2017, 22:18

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:I'd choose independence over brute economics.
The difficulty with this analysis is that we are still likely to have to follow quite a lot of the EU rules anyway.

If we leave without a deal then we don't have to follow any EU rules.

No-one, for example, is suggesting that EU residents will need a visa to come to he UK

If we crash out without a deal, anything is possible.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 24 Oct 2017, 07:37

UndercoverElephant wrote:If we leave without a deal then we don't have to follow any EU rules.

Not if we want to sell things to the EU.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 24 Oct 2017, 08:31

Yes, your right. That's why the Chinese, Japanese and Russians will never leave the EU.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 24 Oct 2017, 11:28

While I voted Remain, my aim is to make the most of Brexit. In the chaos that will accompany our departure from Europe lies an opportunity to do everything differently. Taking back control? Yes, Iâ€™m all for it.

Source

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 24 Oct 2017, 14:17

johnhemming2 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote:If we leave without a deal then we don't have to follow any EU rules.
Not if we want to sell things to the EU.

Not if the EU wants to sell things to the UK.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 24 Oct 2017, 15:42

It could be as simple as you labeling a product with what rules it was produced under, say for grain or meat GMO or Non GMO, herbicide or organic, etc. and letting the EU customer deciding if they want to buy it or not. The governments only requirement being full and accurate disclosure. Works both ways so your French wine etc. has a different label has a bar code your phone can read and give you it's pedigree.
Then of course there are the import duties which hopefully would be kept as low as possible both ways and not be used as protective tools. (Fat chance I know). No good reason to not have them just high enough to cover the cost of customs and bomb sniffing operations.
At least you don't have the cost of building a wall.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 24 Oct 2017, 16:33

vtsnowedin wrote:It could be as simple as you labeling a product with what rules it was produced under, say for grain or meat GMO or Non GMO, herbicide or organic, etc. and letting the EU customer deciding if they want to buy it or not.

Hah! You don't understand the way the EU works. This would never be allowed to happen. Big Daddy EU must make all decisions of that sort on behalf of the consumer. Couldn't possibly trust them to make their own minds up. Perish the thought!!

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 24 Oct 2017, 16:50

UndercoverElephant wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:It could be as simple as you labeling a product with what rules it was produced under, say for grain or meat GMO or Non GMO, herbicide or organic, etc. and letting the EU customer deciding if they want to buy it or not.
Hah! You don't understand the way the EU works. This would never be allowed to happen. Big Daddy EU must make all decisions of that sort on behalf of the consumer. Couldn't possibly trust them to make their own minds up. Perish the thought!!

Oh I understand it. I live under Vermont state government after all and am quite aware of the concept. Notice my first two words in the post are "It could" not it will probably, or it should,
Best of luck to all of you. You certainly need it.