Migrant watch (merged topic)

[UndercoverElephant]

Not often a Torygraph reporter makes sense to me:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... cades.html

There's sense in some of his diagnosis but his prescription is utterly wrong. The great migration will continue so long as some nations are so much wealthier than others.

You might as well have written "the great migration will continue until Jesus returns." Seriously, the two statements are equally grounded in reality, and of equal merit.

[UndercoverElephant]

I've been watching this thread for some time, and approached the thought of posting in it with some trepidation. I thought I might be able to contribute a viewpoint without the personal attacks being levelled at some members of the forum. I was wrong. The early signs are there. I won't therefore be taking any further part in the discussion.

This thread is about as far from reasoned debate as it's possible to get.

And it reflects what will happen in British/European society if hundreds of thousands of refugees are allowed in. Eventually the people of Europe will take matters into their own hands. This time, there really will be rivers of blood, and it won't just be that of the migrants, but of those people deemed responsible for importing the catastrophe.

If you want to know how this is going to end then look no further than Jonny. Eventually the white working class will be pushed to the point where they aren't willing to take it any more and they will respond not just with attacks on newly arrived migrant, because they won't know who are the newly arrived migrants and who are people who were born in the UK to immigrants who arrived in the 60s and 70s. In other words this will lead us straight towards an extremely nasty society where racism and xenophobia, even towards non-white or muslim people who were born in the UK, is out of control. And if you think this is an apocalyptic exagerration, just look at what is happening, politically, in France.

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... test-power

From protest to power

Right-wingers in local government show how they might use a national mandate

This has message has to be repeated until it sinks in: the path of allowing mass migrations of refugess into the UK leads us straight towards the official empowerment of the far right.

[biffvernon]

This thread is about as far from reasoned debate as it's possible to get. I understand and accept people's need to vent anger and frustration over what is happening to our civilisation, and I'll leave you to it.

Adopt my policy of never reading posts by three of the people who often post here and it's not so bad.

There's a very well-reasoned piece, with some statistics worth keeping in mind from Kenneth Roth, a man who knows a bit about the subject, what with it being his day job, here:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/09/03/refugee-crisis-isnt

[biffvernon]

I feel we may be approaching a vital crossroads, where every single citizen on the planet has to decide for her/himself whether ALL human life is of value, or not. If we collectively choose the latter, then we shall condemn ourselves only to oblivion.

I decided on the former a long time ago. Well, I probably didn't 'decide'; it was just indoctrinated into me by my mother before I was old enough to decide much for myself.

[jonny2mad]

Well when you dont have enough resources for everyone giving to the stranger kills your friend..... shame on you

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 84,00.html

Thankfully I had a father with much more sense

[biffvernon]

Green Party statement:

Refugee crisis: If Cameron is serious about helping, UK should take 240,000 refugees
4 September 2015

If David Cameron is serious about helping Europe’s refugee crisis, he should make provision for 240,000 people to come to the UK, according to the Green Party.

The UK’s 60 million population is 12% of Europe’s – so the Greens believe the UK should support 12%, or 240,000, of the two million Afghans, Eritreans and Syrians fleeing desperate situations [1].

Green Party leader, Natalie Bennett, said that the UK has a “humanitarian responsibility” and that although the 240,000 may at first “sound daunting”, it’s “no impossibility”.

Bennett said:

"Stated as a single number, 240,000 sounds daunting, but put into scale, one refugee for each 266 Britons, an increase of 0.4% in the population, then that’s no impossibility.

"And we have to make it possible, for Britain has a humanitarian responsibility, as the world's sixth-richest economy, as a state whose unilateral, and sometimes illegal, actions have helped to create the political and military chaos in the region from which many of the refugees are fleeing, to not be the foot-dragger, the resistor, that it is now, but instead live up to our proud tradition of providing refuge over centuries.

"This is a global humanitarian crisis, we must play our part in tackling it, and the British people in huge numbers, through petitions and offers of help, have shown they are prepared to take on their responsibilities."

- See more at: https://www.greenparty.org.uk/news/2015 ... G8A6Q.dpuf

[fuzzy]

So the environmental party is run by baby subsidisers with no interest in the environment - who would have guessed....?

[AutomaticEarth]

What Cameron should be doing is advising that with 300+k immigrants coming in, there is no room in the inn, advising to the world (or at least the UK) to ignore the Watermelons (ie the so-called Greens) advice and also advise that Russia, China, and the former Baltic states have plenty of room for migrants. That makes sense to me.

[UndercoverElephant]

Green Party statement:

Refugee crisis: If Cameron is serious about helping, UK should take 240,000 refugees
4 September 2015

And you are proud of this insanity. How can anybody take the Green Party seriously with policies like this?

This is doing IMMENSE DAMAGE to the political credibility of the party you support, and it has F**K ALL to do with environmentalism.

The Green Party has lost the plot. It has forgotten why it exists. This is no cause for celebration. It is very, very sad.

[UndercoverElephant]

So the environmental party is run by baby subsidisers with no interest in the environment

Yep. Completely lost the plot. Caroline Lucas and that awful Australian woman have ruined the Green Party.

[Little John]

What Cameron should be doing is advising that with 300+k immigrants coming in, there is no room in the inn, advising to the world (or at least the UK) to ignore the Watermelons (ie the so-called Greens) advice and also advise that Russia, China, and the former Baltic states have plenty of room for migrants. That makes sense to me.

They wont be idiotic enough to let them in

[kenneal - lagger]

The Green Party, like their representative here, are idealists and as such lack a certain understanding of the realities of life. Hence they often make decisions which bear no relation to the fundamentals of their policy: in this case the sustainability of the nation.

[kenneal - lagger]

They wont be idiotic enough to let them in

Unfortunately, he is!

The business community, the Kleptocracy, would have been on at him since the start of the crisis to let in as many as possible because they represent an enormous opportunity for them to make LOADSA MONAAAYY! The government will have to borrow money from the BANKS to cover BUILDING new accommodation for the refugees and/or the RENTing of existing buildings. They will need FOOD, CLOTHING, FURNITURE and MEDICAL CARE. In the longer term they mean more money for the SUPERMARKETS and they will have a considerable downward pressure on wages for EMPLOYERS.

Who's not to want them? People on low pay who could see the wages stagnant for years or even cut; people looking for a job; people in low rent housing; people looking for low cost purchase of housing. Any one at the bottom of the pile or starting out in life is going to be at a disadvantage while the middle class bleeding hearts will not notice a thing. They might be mildly inconvenienced by a few extra beggars on the street.

On the other hand they may find the bottom literally blown out of the lives by terrorists as there don't seem to be any checks on the hundreds of thousands of young men of military age who are pouring out of Syria. Combine them with the returning jihadis, who know the home ground well, and you have a fifth column army being let into the country with a free pass. Well more than a free pass, they'll have board and lodging as well. I suppose that all the money that they now have for boat rides and train tickets will have disappeared as soon as they get their free travel documents.

[biffvernon]

there is no room in the inn

Not sure which inn you have in mind but there's a field across the road from my house that contains two elderly horses, quite a lot of grass and some thistles. It is not full.

Kenneth Roth provides more numbers, as I may have mentioned before. This is for those who didn't read it first time round:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/09/03/refugee-crisis-isnt

And here's Green Party policy on refugees:
https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/ra.html

[mr brightside]

Not that there's any need to point out the obvious around here, but this thing is getting worse at a rate that is starting to get frightening. Cameron has buckled, i knew his logical stance on the problem was too good to be true, and i'm worried about the amount of exposure that is being given to the 'Refugees welcome' campaign.

I hate Radio 1, but the other day i was listening to someone elses radio when Newsbeat came on; lots of interviews with spotty, short sighted people living in a dreamworld. Today on Vine's show, overwhelming representation for the welcome campaign and not enough representation for the other side of the argument. What also aggravates me is that when the humanitarian argument comes forth it goes unchallenged or isn't properly challenged. The BBC looks to be skewing it's coverage in favour of the welcome campaign, as do most of the papers, which is leading by the looks of it to too many people taking a side without having thought it through.

Today i tried to get to grips with the drivers that are leading people to decide that taking in refugees is a good idea. Politicians aren't a suitable test case because they sing to songsheets, but the only thing that would cause normal everyday folk to say yes to some god awful madness like Blunkett's 25,000 would be naivety or misinformation. Too many people don't realise that their way of life and their very existence is already under threat, and that some kind of saturation point has been reached which is putting more pressure on an already unstable global situation. The real truth is being ignored, maybe most people aren't ready to hear it yet or don't believe it.