Ukraine Watch...

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Mr. Fox
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Post by Mr. Fox »

emordnilap wrote:Where is this "evidence"?
The big lie - hence there is none. You'll find reference to 'Russian aggression' in practically every 'western' news article.

Estonian President, Toomas Hendrik Ilves, in a speech yesterday, sharing a podium with Obombya:
...in the general situation, we need to be clear and consistent in the language that we use to describe the situation in Ukraine.

As the EU underlined last weekend, this is Russian aggression.
Nazis. Don't ya just love 'em?
Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
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Mr. Fox
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Post by Mr. Fox »

This one takes the prize for the most batshit-crazy hysterical warmongering propaganda so far in my book. It's propaganda about propaganda! Ooh, 'meta'.
The [Washington] Post's View:
Putin’s propoganda keeps Russians in the dark about Ukraine and more

By Editorial Board August 31

PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN, his bitter resentment at the Soviet empire’s collapse metastasized into seething Russian nationalism, has marginalized the political opposition, muzzled dissidents and intimidated independent voices in civil society. In prosecuting his widening war in Ukraine, he has also resurrected the tyranny of the Big Lie, using state-controlled media to twist the truth so grotesquely that most Russians are in the dark — or profoundly misinformed — about events in their neighbor to the west.

Most Russians get their news from state-controlled broadcast outlets, which have moved beyond mere propaganda into outlandish conspiracy theories and unhinged jingoism. The shoot-down of the Malaysian airliner in July, over territory controlled by Russian-sponsored militias in Ukraine, was spun by Kremlin’s media mouthpieces into a provocation orchestrated by the West. With few countervailing views in the mainstream media, many Russians believed the spin or had no idea what to believe.

In support of those Russian-sponsored militias in eastern Ukraine, now backed by growing ranks of Russian troops and weapons, Moscow has created a fantasy that plays on Russian victimization. By this rendering, the forces backing Ukraine’s government in Kiev are fascists and neo-Nazis, a portrayal that Mr. Putin personally advanced on Friday, when he likened the Ukrainian army’s attempts to regain its own territory to the Nazi siege of Leningrad in World War II, an appeal meant to inflame Russians’ already overheated nationalist emotions.

In the absence of independent and free reporting, few Russians realize that Russian soldiers and armaments are in action in eastern Ukraine, albeit (as in Crimea) in uniforms and vehicles stripped of their identifying insignia and license plates. With no free media, Russians are left to fend for themselves against a firestorm of falsehoods.

Only a few trickles of real information are penetrating Mr. Putin’s barrage of lies. In The Post on Friday, reporter Karoun Demirjian described the trauma of Russian mothers whose soldier sons were captured last week in Ukraine — a country where they had no idea Russian troops had been deployed. The mothers, demanding explanations, have been met with stonewalling and indifference from Russian authorities.

Mindful of polls suggesting Russians do not support armed intervention in Ukraine, Mr. Putin pretends Moscow’s forces are uninvolved. But by driving domestic public opinion into a frenzy through the state-controlled media, he could be preparing Russians for more overt and wide-ranging intervention.

Against the extensive propaganda instruments available to Mr. Putin’s authoritarian regime, the West can promote a fair and factual version of events, but there’s little it can do to make ordinary Russians believe it. Even in a country with relatively unfettered access to the Internet, the monopolistic power of state-controlled media is a potent weapon in the hands of a tyrant.

Mr. Putin’s Big Lie shows why it is important to support a free press where it still exists and outlets like Radio Free Europe that bring the truth to people who need it.
It would be funny, were it not for the fact that they're trying desperately to drag the World into a conflict that my very well end all life on the planet, and there's no emoticon for that.

You are, however, allowed to laugh at the fact that these batshit banshees of bullshittery can't even SPELL 'propaganda' in their headline.
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clv101
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Post by clv101 »

Mr. Fox wrote:It would be funny, were it not for the fact that they're trying desperately to drag the World into a conflict...
In my opinion NATO, or really just UK and US seem just as keen on a new conflict. We seem pretty good at escalating conflict situations these days.
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Post by Tarrel »

Nice bit of alliteration there, Mr F. 8)
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RenewableCandy
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Post by RenewableCandy »

Even Private Eye seem to have fallen for the "Russia is invading Ukraine" crap this week :(
Soyez réaliste. Demandez l'impossible.
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Mr. Fox
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Post by Mr. Fox »

@Chris: Agreed - the BBC were a close runner-up with this.

@RC: Yep - Rigidly ensuring the debate remains firmly within the bounds of the 'acceptable'. 'Sir Ian Hislop' has a nice ring to it.

Cheers, Tarrel! :)

This just in:
Comment by Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev on Russian gas supplies to Ukraine

03 September 2014 19:30

Dmitry Medvedev: Proposals to use seasonal prices for Russian gas supplied to Ukraine came up today. We are ready to discuss how to resume our cooperation in the gas sphere with Ukraine as a debtor nation, but on two conditions.

First, Ukraine must repay its existing debt, which is astronomical.

Second, even with seasonal prices, the average price for the year will amount to $385 per 1,000 cubic metres, which includes the cancellation of the Russian customs duty, which our partners are well aware of.

If they don’t need discounts, we are willing to go back to the price of $485 per 1,000 cubic metres. We are quite happy with this price.
http://government.ru/en/news/14719
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RenewableCandy
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Post by RenewableCandy »

Many, many moons ago when I was a little Renewable of about 6 or so my mum and I were just talking about random things while doing the housework or something, as you do, and I remember she just said out of the blue, If you ever become leader of a country, never try invading Russia.

There you have it. Always listen to Mum.
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Post by Tarrel »

That's a pretty amazing conversation to have with a six year old over the washing up!

We had enough trouble getting our three to do any housework at all, never mind discussing foreign policy at the same time!
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Post by Little John »

I think it's also worth looking at this from a specifically Russian perspective as well vis-a-vis the chances of any Russian military activity taking place in the future. The fact is, Russians are having to watch, on their doorstep, fellow ethnic Russians being bombed to bits by a fascist junta put in place, in all likelihood, by a Washington inspired or, even, Washington orchestrated coup d'etat and their government is standing by and not directly intervening to stop it and the reason for this is that Putin knows full well that the Yank-led West is trying to goad them into it.
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Mr. Fox
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Post by Mr. Fox »

RC wrote:Always listen to Mum.
I was told not to talk to strangers. Then someone invented 'the internet'. :)

Great article from the Telegraph from a few weeks back (:shock: Yikes! I never thought I'd type that sentence):
Fresh evidence of how the West lured Ukraine into its orbit

The West is demonising President Putin when what set this crisis in motion were recklessly provocative moves to absorb Ukraine into the EU

How odd it has been to read all those accounts of Europe sleepwalking into war in the summer of 1914, and how such madness must never happen again, against the background of the most misrepresented major story of 2014 – the gathering crisis between Russia and the West over Ukraine, as we watch developments in that very nasty civil war, with 20,000 Russian troops massing on the border.

---8<---



One of my readers heard from a Ukrainian woman working in Britain that her husband back home earns €200 a month as an electrician, but is paid another €200 a month, from a German bank, to join demonstrations such as the one last March when hundreds of thousands – many doubtless entirely sincere – turned out in Kiev to chant “Europe, Europe” at Baroness Ashton, the EU’s visiting “foreign minister”.

However dangerous this crisis becomes, it is the West which has brought it about; and our hysterical vilifying of Russia is more reminiscent of that fateful mood in the summer of 1914 than we should find it comfortable to contemplate.
No idea if it ever made the print edition - one suspects not.
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Mr. Fox
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Post by Mr. Fox »

stevecook172001 wrote:I think it's also worth looking at this from a specifically Russian perspective as well vis-a-vis the chances of any Russian military activity taking place in the future. The fact is, Russians are having to watch, on their doorstep, fellow ethnic Russians being bombed to bits by a fascist junta put in place, in all likelihood, by a Washington inspired or, even, Washington orchestrated coup d'etat and their government is standing by and not directly intervening to stop it and the reason for this is that Putin knows full well that the Yank-led West is trying to goad them into it.
Did you see that Evgeny Fedorov video?

I reckon it's as much of a 'Russian perspective' as you're likely to find anywhere (here's his wiki page).

It's a Washington orchestrated coup d'etat in Moscow that he's worried about.
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Post by another_exlurker »

Good grief, even TruthDig are furthering the Western propaganda, although rather more subtly than the MSM are.
Before heading off to celebrate the Labor Day weekend, President Barack Obama took to the podium in the White House briefing room to blast Moscow. “Russia is responsible for the violence in Eastern Ukraine,” he said. “The violence is encouraged by Russia. The separatists are trained by Russia. They are armed by Russia. They are funded by Russia. Russia has deliberately and repeatedly violated the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. And the new images of Russian forces inside Ukraine make that plain for the world to see.” The sanctions imposed by the West are devastating the Russian economy, the president claimed, and, therefore, he promised “more costs and consequences for Russia.”

The extent to which Russia is responsible for the crisis in Ukraine is a matter for another article.

<snip>

The conclusion is not surprising in light of failed Russian-Ukrainian talks and Moscow’s evermore direct involvement in the conflict.

<snip>

The declared aim of the Western sanctions is to push Russia to a de-escalation of the crisis in Ukraine. However, it remains rather murky which steps exactly Russia has to take that would be regarded as sufficiently defusing.

<snip>

On the ground in Ukraine, results have been nil. There is no visible lessening of support for insurgents or a softening of Moscow’s position on the matter. On the contrary, after military successes by the Ukrainian army, Russia has allegedly decided to upgrade its aid, no longer limited to military hardware but seemingly also encompassing soldiers on the ground. Although labeled as “volunteers,” these Russian troops and their heavy equipment are unlikely to cross the border into Ukraine without explicit backing from their superiors. These troops contributed decisively to reverting some of the previous Ukrainian successes. The sanctions have caused a defiant political response in the Russian political elite—with many calling for an expansion of Russian countermeasures.
I'll stop there.

Original article.

With the propaganda starting to spread into the online, alternative media, we are definitely being prepared for war with Russia IMHO.
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Mr. Fox
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Post by Mr. Fox »

Even Cryptogon has crossed to the dark side.

It feels like I'm watching an old friend become a crack-head overnight. :(

I keep asking myself why I didn't see it coming, but looking back, the signs were there - I guess I just didn't want to see them.
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Post by another_exlurker »

This article in Dissident Voice is very subtle. Ostensibly it's a critique of Western propaganda, but it contains these couple of gems:
Third, Mr. Judah knows that President Putin repeatedly has warned that any attempt to incorporate either Georgia or Ukraine into NATO would constitute a threat to its national security. Russia backed up its warning by sending troops into Georgia in 2008. And when the West failed that tutorial, Russia backed up its warning once again by sending troops into Ukraine in 2014.

<snip>

(Nevertheless, one cannot rule out the possibility that some new Western response to Mr. Putin’s interference in Ukraine might provoke Mr. Putin to put pressure on the Baltic States.)
I wonder how far this will spread? On one level it's interesting to watch, but on another, it's extremely troubling.
Little John

Post by Little John »

They are trying to get an unstoppable cultural/political bandwagon rolling.
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