Insulation on the cheap

aliwood · Post by **aliwood** » 25 Jun 2006, 17:00

We all seem to be avid readers on this forum so this seems an ideal thing to mention.

We have been working on turning the two main alcoves beside the chimney in our main room into book storage. This wall is the one that gets hit by the prevailing cold winds in winter, we have cavity wall insulation but every little helps. We have got together all our old crummy 'self assembly' bookcases and reassembled them using the walls as the verticals and putting in as many shelves as we can.

Result: Two large, previously unused areas stuffed with books, oodles more room for all our other stuff, and hopefully a better insulated room at a total cost of some electricity and a few screws and wall plugs. Simple and effective.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 26 Jun 2006, 14:59

What a good idea - bookshelves against outside walls! We have got stacks of the things . . .

And if the gas gets cut off, you could burn them!

(only joking. If my other half read this it would be my guitars going on the fire . . .

)

careful_eugene · Post by **careful_eugene** » 26 Jun 2006, 17:14

I've thought of using some of my 3 year old daughters soft toys (she has loads) as extra loft insulation, but she doesn't seem to like the idea.
On a more serious note, my house doesn't have cavity walls so I was thinking of installing insulated plasterboard. Has anyone else done this? Do you install over the existing plaster? Does it make a difference?

aliwood · Post by **aliwood** » 26 Jun 2006, 21:58

Andy Hunt wrote:What a good idea - bookshelves against outside walls! We have got stacks of the things . . .

And if the gas gets cut off, you could burn them!

Finally

A use for all those Jeffery Archer novels!!!

To be fair this isn't my idea, I pinched it from a book written by John Yeoman, he did it, and found it worked extremely well for him in a draughty flat. It really looks good too, and saves on decorating - it comes with it's own colour scheme.

Pippa · Post by **Pippa** » 26 Jun 2006, 22:04

Installing insulated plasterboard over the existing plaster is fine. However, one of the main problems with solid brick walls is that when you start improving insulation (especially when you improve windows and doors by putting in good double glazed units) you reduce the "natural" ventilation of the house. We used to live in a victorian semi. It was very cold so one of the first things we did was put in double glazing. That winter we had mould growing on all the external walls, especially on the corners of the house and only up stairs. Admitedly I did dry all our clothes on a clothes horse in the house! The moisture in the air was finding the cold spots and condensing; external corners are especially cold. So the next thing we did was dry lining pronto - apart from anything else living in a mouldy house is a bit of a health hazzard.

To stop mould accumulating behind your new insulation put a layer of either polythene or building paper which acts as a vapour barrier. Before you do anything though, check with the supplier you are buying from as to exactly how to install your insulation - there are so many makes around and installation methods vary accordingly.

Make sure as well that you keep your gutters cleaned out; it will take alot longer for water damage to become apparent once you have drylined your house and obviously there could be alot more damaged done before you realise you have a problem. Badly maintained gutters, debris left propped up around houses and earth mounded up above dpc level cause a huge amount of damage to older properties - so if your old house has damp patches check for these signs.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 27 Jun 2006, 07:54

The Green Building Forum and Period Property UK are good places for help with building related stuff.

newmac · Post by **newmac** » 27 Jun 2006, 17:40

Insulating the outside of the house is a better option if you don't mind cladding on the outside.

If the insulation is on the inside the bricks act as a cold sink, if they are inside the insulation they act as a warm sink.

I think I'm right here...

aliwood · Post by **aliwood** » 28 Jun 2006, 11:25

One problem with cladding on the outside is the local planning office. One area of our town has been declared a local conservation area, it has a lot of properties in it that might benefit from cladding but won't be able to consider it now. It might be worth chacking with your local building inspector before you decide to go ahead.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 28 Jun 2006, 11:40

The most eco-friendly and practical way of insulating a wall on the inside is to line it with Thermafleece and timber stud-work supporting lath and clay or lime plaster or clay board finished with lime plaster. All materials available from Womersleys and elsewhere. Go for natural materials that are sustainably produced, non-hazardous in manufacture, use and disposal and, of course, not dependant on the petrochemicals industry.

newmac · Post by **newmac** » 28 Jun 2006, 11:49

My new business idea (anyone want to join)?

During the night people use duvets/mattresses to protect them from the elements. As these are not all that well insulated they also need the room to be heated.

Modern technology should allow duvets/mattresses to be heat stores if the outside of the duvet and underside of the mattress are well insulated to stop heat escaping. This could done using a mixture of reflextive materials and trapped air - similar to radiator reflextors.

Insulating your bed well could mean that you could have the central heating down or off during the night. Potential massive savings.

What do you think?

isenhand · Post by **isenhand** » 28 Jun 2006, 12:06

Don?t they already make space age aluminum blankets? Couldn?t a person easily just to put one of them in the duvet cover and under the mattress and achieve the same effect?

Pippa · Post by **Pippa** » 28 Jun 2006, 12:12

Newmac

We don't have our heating on at night, even in the coldest parts of the winter and we always have the window open even if its only a tiny little bit.

Is it "normal" to have the central heating on at night (I run a B & B and in 9 years of business have only had one complaint )

I do have a winter and summer weight duvets and throws if folks are cold.

As an experiment I also managed to work in the office all last winter (which is a single skinned room above our garage with no insulation and single glazed windows!) without any heating at all - I was on a quest to reduce daily electricity consumption so I decided to stop using the electric oil filled heating panel which I had previously benefitted from. I had to wear a big coat and thick socks and walking boots and I covered the desk in a neoprene mat with a fleecy top. I was fine though and will do the same next winter. Also cost to my pocket and the environment was Zero

newmac · Post by **newmac** » 28 Jun 2006, 12:33

I only have my heating on for a few hours a day, and only for the coldest parts of the winter but most houses I go into are extremely hot all day and night.

Many flats are so badly insulated and/or the occupants do not handle cold all that weel (the young and old) that with significant rises in heating costs there could well be many people with houses heated well below what they need.

Isenhand - pretty much exactly what I was thinking but would be much more effective if integrated into the design of the duvet/mattress. Also the air barrier or similar would held stop conduction loss.

Pippa · Post by **Pippa** » 28 Jun 2006, 12:42

Biffvernon

We are currently quoting to re-build an old timber framed barn. Building regulations stipulate that the foundations must have a minimum 6 meter pile. The plans require that we also dig trenches to take the storm water to a big soak away. The scope for work specification details an oil boiler, underfloor heating, each room having a room stat(concrete screed floor), mega flow250 litre tank, wood burning stove, lots of modern (celotex) insulation between the oak frame, internal face between studs render with 3 coat lime rich sand:lime:cement (instead of plaster) - a basic overview.

Obviously, with so much digging to be done, ground pumps seem to be a good idea. I have found a couple of websites for these.

What do you think of mega flow systems from a green point of view?
Should I suggest any other type of plaster and what are the cost implications?
I know that celotex isn't pc but how do other materials hold up to U values and cost?
Do you know whether you can build a rainwater collection - I know that in some parts of China people collect their roof water in purpose built cellars - I read this in When the Rivers Run Dry. I am thinking about a pond!

I would appreciate your advise - I've got to be quick as the chap is pressing me for a price!

Also, (you will be proud of me I think) I went out to see a new customer last night and talked them into spending ?20,000 less on their new extension by

Having a smaller one! (using less materials and time)
Simplifying the electrics and having roof lights
Increasing the size of the south facing patio window (thermal gain)
Not moving the existing oil boiler (thereby saving on stupid new compliance and the possibility of having to have a new one - saving on having to re-site existing oil tank and possibly having to have a new one because of stupid new building regs)
Re-using existing kitchen units

Hope I did right - they're pleased anyway!

Post by **clv101** » 28 Jun 2006, 12:45

newmac wrote:During the night people use duvets/mattresses to protect them from the elements. As these are not all that well insulated they also need the room to be heated.

Modern technology should allow duvets/mattresses to be heat stores if the outside of the duvet and underside of the mattress are well insulated to stop heat escaping. This could done using a mixture of reflextive materials and trapped air - similar to radiator reflextors.

Insulating your bed well could mean that you could have the central heating down or off during the night. Potential massive savings.

In the Middle Ages draffy castles were combated with four poster beds.