2011- the year of the news overload

[emordnilap]

Boff Whalley from Chumbawumba has a good piece on anarchism in the Indy:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 36159.html

Love this:

The politicians and the press are able to bandy words around without depth or explanation because they last for one day. Instant hit. Tomorrow, there will be a whole new set of semantics to frown about, to criticise.

Great thoughts in that article.

[Standuble]

I enjoy the mystery and mysticism of the 2012 doomsday theory, not just for its connections with the forgotten and perhaps forbidden history of the Mayans but a break away from established understanding into potentially unimaginable areas (which is great for the imagination.) How would (within the confines of our understanding of our universe) stellar alignment cause the end of all existence? That is unless something really out there happens, e.g. a particle accelerator or Hadron collider somehow opens a portal to another universe and they begin to merge together.

If the Mayans are right and the world does end, should we consider it in the traditional context of an all-encompassing annihilation or merely the destruction of a single planet orbiting a single star in a single galaxy amongst many in an immense universe? I suspect the latter is all a correct Mayan prediction would amount to.

I personally believe though that the apocalypse will be a strictly human affair, with no God or apocalyptic horseman in sight. Perhaps you could consider that a final victory for atheism, perhaps not. Even under Atilla the Hun and Genghis Khan, sometimes alternatively known the "Scourge of God" and the "Punishment of God" as they brought great conquest which toppled the old order, there were no signs in the heavens of biblical prophecy. More than likely there were neither at the Battle of Tours, or the sacking of Baghdad in 1258. It will be just like then, with nations fighting for their survival and others killing and conquering to ensure theirs, just like they always have. All the while, the sun stays shining and its an otherwise a local day outdoors in the sunshine.

After going off topic I have one thing to say about the Media being overwhelmed: they've always been overwhelmed. There has always been an enormous amount which went unreported on a daily basis. It's only this year there's been more stuff people find "interesting."

[Prono 007]

See: http://www.the2012story.com/

OK watched the vid and found it totally unconvincing I'm afraid to say. "Corruptions creep in at the end of a cycle." But there are smaller cycles. What has happened at the end of those? Anything so significant that it can't happen at some other time too?

I just can't get my head around the idea that the position of the stars can influence human affairs on earth. Though I can understand why ancient people's, who didn't know any better, would attempt to give some kind of meaning to the position of the stars. Seems like human nature, or just the way the brain works, to try to find order and meaning out of chaos.

The one thing that will end though is the work that guy is doing. He won't be able to write books about 2012 any more. Time for a new job!

[UndercoverElephant]

See: http://www.the2012story.com/

OK watched the vid and found it totally unconvincing I'm afraid to say. "Corruptions creep in at the end of a cycle." But there are smaller cycles. What has happened at the end of those? Anything so significant that it can't happen at some other time too?

It's mysticism. A lot of people will not be convinced.

I just can't get my head around the idea that the position of the stars can influence human affairs on earth. Though I can understand why ancient people's, who didn't know any better, would attempt to give some kind of meaning to the position of the stars. Seems like human nature, or just the way the brain works, to try to find order and meaning out of chaos.

Maybe there's something else going on?

I don't think that the position of the stars can influence human affairs on Earth in any paranormal sort of way. I believe that the 2012 phenomenon is connected to hidden forms of causality, but that this causality is not simply the stars influencing human affairs.

I realise the above answer is vague. I'm happy to go into this in greater detail, but only on the understanding that will be a discussion about mysticism and philosophy rather than history or science.

The one thing that will end though is the work that guy is doing. He won't be able to write books about 2012 any more. Time for a new job!

He may find something related to write about...

[Ludwig]

I just can't get my head around the idea that the position of the stars can influence human affairs on earth.

I don't know enough about the Maya to venture an opinion about the general accuracy of their particular predictions. But the underlying question is not of the positions of the stars (or planets) influencing human affairs in the way we understand. In mystical views of reality, cause and effect are in a sense interchangable. The past causes the future, but the future also causes the past.

There's no "starting point", no ultimate cause. That idea seems unacceptable to the typical Western mind, but really it isn't. Much of Eastern mystical insight revolves around the idea that the "answer" is actually the realisation that there needn't be a question.

[Ludwig]

I enjoy the mystery and mysticism of the 2012 doomsday theory, not just for its connections with the forgotten and perhaps forbidden history of the Mayans but a break away from established understanding into potentially unimaginable areas (which is great for the imagination.) How would (within the confines of our understanding of our universe) stellar alignment cause the end of all existence? That is unless something really out there happens, e.g. a particle accelerator or Hadron collider somehow opens a portal to another universe and they begin to merge together.

If the Mayans are right and the world does end, should we consider it in the traditional context of an all-encompassing annihilation or merely the destruction of a single planet orbiting a single star in a single galaxy amongst many in an immense universe? I suspect the latter is all a correct Mayan prediction would amount to.

My view, which I understand most people disagree with, is that reality is consciousness; that nothing actually exists in an absolute sense until consciousness discovers it. I'm still thinking about and reading about this stuff, so my views are provisional, I hasten to add.

One thing worth mentioning in this context is the apparent increase in mystical and paranormal phenomena in times of collective stress. I understand that weird visions and premonitions were pretty common among soldiers in the First World War trenches.

I'm not going to argue that I have proof for any of these ideas because I don't. I'm just saying that I think what we perceive is merely a shadow of what's really "there", and that at this stage I don't rule anything out regarding what the nature of any "transformation of consciousness" might be.

As I've said before, my views are largely derived from my own experience, and I wouldn't particularly expect anyone whose experience is different to accept them.

[Standuble]

My view, which I understand most people disagree with, is that reality is consciousness; that nothing actually exists in an absolute sense until consciousness discovers it. I'm still thinking about and reading about this stuff, so my views are provisional, I hasten to add.

One thing worth mentioning in this context is the apparent increase in mystical and paranormal phenomena in times of collective stress. I understand that weird visions and premonitions were pretty common among soldiers in the First World War trenches.

I'm not going to argue that I have proof for any of these ideas because I don't. I'm just saying that I think what we perceive is merely a shadow of what's really "there", and that at this stage I don't rule anything out regarding what the nature of any "transformation of consciousness" might be.

As I've said before, my views are largely derived from my own experience, and I wouldn't particularly expect anyone whose experience is different to accept them.

I'm not calling your beliefs nonsense or anything, I keep an open mind about this stuff. My area of thought at the time of my post was that no unexplained phenomena or unproven theories e.g. dark matter, psychic phenomena etc. have ever seemed to pose a problem to the existence of the planet itself, perhaps none to the whole of the observable universe itself. If there has been no reaction in the past, why would something so harmless to us suddenly flare up and kill us all in 2012? For something apocalyptic I think you'll ever need something completely alien to the universe to cause it (like extra-universe aliens ) or something within mainstream understanding e.g. black holes or a supervolcano eruption.

[UndercoverElephant]

My view, which I understand most people disagree with, is that reality is consciousness; that nothing actually exists in an absolute sense until consciousness discovers it. I'm still thinking about and reading about this stuff, so my views are provisional, I hasten to add.

One thing worth mentioning in this context is the apparent increase in mystical and paranormal phenomena in times of collective stress. I understand that weird visions and premonitions were pretty common among soldiers in the First World War trenches.

I'm not going to argue that I have proof for any of these ideas because I don't. I'm just saying that I think what we perceive is merely a shadow of what's really "there", and that at this stage I don't rule anything out regarding what the nature of any "transformation of consciousness" might be.

As I've said before, my views are largely derived from my own experience, and I wouldn't particularly expect anyone whose experience is different to accept them.

I'm not calling your beliefs nonsense or anything, I keep an open mind about this stuff. My area of thought at the time of my post was that no unexplained phenomena or unproven theories e.g. dark matter, psychic phenomena etc. have ever seemed to pose a problem to the existence of the planet itself, perhaps none to the whole of the observable universe itself. If there has been no reaction in the past, why would something so harmless to us suddenly flare up and kill us all in 2012?

Well there are things that could do that. A nearby supernova is a textbook example.

But I don't think this is going to happen. I think this is about humans. It's not the physical world that shows any sign of ending - it is the ideological, economic and political world that is becoming increasingly unstable. What is ending is a big, bad, interconnected set of lies that most westerners have believed since the end of WWII. What is ending is Fasco-Capitalism as we know it, and the whole sick society it has spawned.

Who needs black holes and pole shifts when the prevailing global power structure is about to collapse?

[Lord Beria3]

On the subject of the Mayan stuff, the Mayans themselves say that they the 2012 prediction is total nonsense.

What more do you need?

Now, it is a interesting fact that 2012 does appear to be a turning point in a number of key macro trends - the global debt crisis, Peak Oil etc - but this is merely a coincidence with the 2012 pseudo-scientific Mayan crap.

[Ludwig]

On the subject of the Mayan stuff, the Mayans themselves say that they the 2012 prediction is total nonsense.

What more do you need?

2012 is when the Mayan calendar ends. I don't think anyone here is claiming certainty of anything other than that; what remains is how one interprets the fact.

Are there still Mayans around? If so they must know precisely nothing of ancient Mayan culture, since it took a great deal of effort by academics to decipher the writing of the latter.

Now, it is a interesting fact that 2012 does appear to be a turning point in a number of key macro trends - the global debt crisis, Peak Oil etc - but this is merely a coincidence with the 2012 pseudo-scientific Mayan crap.

No one here is claiming the Mayan 2012 stuff is scientific. That doesn't necessarily make it false.