Flat Earth News by Nick Davies...

[RenewableCandy]

A lot changes in that length of time, including the bias in the voting system, which has got worse.

Yes but given that the 2 parties are pretty well identical now, does it really matter?

[kenneal - lagger]

but given that the 2 parties are pretty well identical now, does it really matter?

I'm sorry Candy, but I couldn't agree with that at all. The Labour Party are the biggest bunch of incompetents I have ever seen.

The Conservative Party leave the nation is a reasonable state when they leave office, at least they have done since the fifties. My history isn't good enough on economics to be able to comment before then.

The Labour Party have left office with the nations finances in a shocking state every time they have been booted out. That's one of the reasons the Tories are unpopular with a large part of the population. Labour dishes out the sweeties to the kiddies without thought of how they are to be paid for and the Tories are left trying to sort out the resultant mess. On withdrawal of the sweeties the kiddies throw their rattles out of the pram and cry "strike".

It's the same in the States, but the other way round. The Republicans (the conservatives with a small c) spend, spend, spend and the Democrats (the liberals with a small l) usually have to put things on an even keel again.

[caspian]

The Conservative Party leave the nation is a reasonable state when they leave office

This is totally selective reasoning. You are conveniently forgetting the fact that the Tories were responsible for some disastrous economic woes of their own in the 80s and 90s, including the UK's ignominious exit from the ERM and interest rates shooting up to 15%. Not to mention unemployment at 3 million plus. And you say Labour are incompetent?

The fact is, politicians seem to be incompetent as a breed. The only answer is to shun them and not vote. There are much better things to do with one's time.

This thread seems to have been derailed somewhat.

[AndySir]

Odd combination of views. Surely competitively and economical 'sound' policies such as the Reaganomics the Conservatives introduces in the 80's are anathema to the limits to growth argument (which I assume a site admin on Powerswitch would accept). How do you reconcile the idea that Conservatives 'sort out the mess' with their acceleration of finance capitalism?

[RenewableCandy]

The Conservative Party leave the nation is a reasonable state when they leave office

This is totally selective reasoning. You are conveniently forgetting the fact that the Tories were responsible for some disastrous economic woes of their own in the 80s and 90s, including the UK's ignominious exit from the ERM and interest rates shooting up to 15%. Not to mention unemployment at 3 million plus. And you say Labour are incompetent?

Ah ya beat me to it!

They also destroyed a lot of "social capital", stuff you can't quite quantify. One of the effects is that now, if HMG want us all to pull together over some crisis (as is happening at the mo but will also be the case with CC, PO etc) nobody will believe them, because we no longer identify with them.

[sweat]

Yes but given that the 2 parties are pretty well identical now, does it really matter?

don't you mean 3?

[RenewableCandy]

I'm afraid that ever since my student days I've always counted the LibDems (under whatever name) not to be a real party because, in every practical example I've ever followed in the news, they've always seemed to take the tory line.

And frankly, I probably saw too many Steve Bell Cartoons for my own good

[nexus]

RC wrote

And frankly, I probably saw too many Steve Bell Cartoons for my own good

You can never see too many Steve Bell cartoons.

[kenneal - lagger]

This is totally selective reasoning. You are conveniently forgetting the fact that the Tories were responsible for some disastrous economic woes of their own in the 80s and 90s, including the UK's ignominious exit from the ERM and interest rates shooting up to 15%.

The Tories took the country into the ERM as a prelude to joining the single currency to the joy of much of the country, most economists and both the other main political parties. The resultant run on the pound was due to speculators seeing a chance to make a fast buck at the expense of the UK taxpayer. Interest rate rises were a direst result of this. We've learnt our lesson from this and now avoid the Euro like the plague. So it wasn't all bad.

Not to mention unemployment at 3 million plus.

The Conservatives took the opportunity of high oil revenues to restructure the economy away from heavy industry, which was facing stiff competition from much cheaper Far East and eastern European competition and into other industries. Those jobs would have gone at some time anyway as the industries were making huge losses every year.

By the time Labour got back in the unemployment rate had plummeted as a result of inward investment, the economy was in good condition and Labour promised at the election that they would carry on the Tories economic policies after the election.

The only answer is to shun them and not vote. There are much better things to do with one's time.

On that basis, you, and all those of that ilk, can't really complain about what comes around, can you?


[quote="AndySir"How do you reconcile the idea that Conservatives 'sort out the mess' with their acceleration of finance capitalism?[/quote]

They haven't got much of an option but to carry on with BAU at the moment. Any acknowledgement that BAU is possible would crash the banks and the stock market instantly, not to mention getting them thrown out at the next election.

The news item that "Government 'planning to measure people's happiness'"http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11756049 shows, I think, that they are trying to find a way to introduce the concept that we should be happy with less in the future as a prelude to the massive downturn which is about to hit us. It's a well known fact, not least by David Cameron, who stated it in the election campaign, that polls show that people were happiest with their lot in the 1950s. Any other reason for a so called "BAU" government to bring "happiness" into the political arena?

[kenneal - lagger]

From the BBC article quoted above

The UK's National Statistician, Jil Matheson, who will oversee the happiness measurement, said: "There is growing international recognition that to measure national well-being and progress there is a need to develop a more comprehensive view, rather than focusing solely on gross domestic product.

I think TPTB are starting to sweat over the future trajectory of the world economy.

[biffvernon]

Any other reason for a so called "BAU" government to bring "happiness" into the political arena?

Oh yes. Someone famous once said religion was the opiate of the masses. The new Tory version of happiness does the same job. Keeps the masses quiet while the rich use up the planet's resources.

[caspian]

The only answer is to shun them and not vote. There are much better things to do with one's time.

On that basis, you, and all those of that ilk, can't really complain about what comes around, can you?

I hear this argument a lot, and it makes no sense to me. In what sense am I not entitled to complain about the Government if I haven't voted? I'm no more, or less, entitled than someone who voted for them, or for some other party. You might as well say I'm not entitled to pay tax if I haven't voted.

Thanks for your revisionist interpretation of history though. It's funny, because NuLab fanboys have got similar defences for the idiotic behaviour of their "team". Anything to get your mates off the hook, eh?

[RenewableCandy]

If the Happiness thingie demonstrates what I suspect it will, i.e. that most of the super-rich are miserable gits, then d'you think the government will abolish being super-rich??

[JohnB]

If the Happiness thingie demonstrates what I suspect it will, i.e. that most of the super-rich are miserable gits, then d'you think the government will abolish being super-rich??

It will just show that the rich need more money. The poor will be happy to live with very little, so they can donate what they don't need to the rich, and everyone will be happy .

[RenewableCandy]

I've got a beter idea.

You get a lot of those kind of stories about rat-race-oriented characters emerging as more sociable, happy people after some life-changing disaster, like an injury or a string of nightmares: everything from "A Christmas Carol" to the films "As good as it gets" or "Liar Liar".... erm you get the idea!