Diplomatic WikiLeaks

nexus · Post by **nexus** » 22 Dec 2010, 08:58

And as for "losses are miniscule in the grand scheme of things", I urge you to rethink that statement and either retract it or clarify it.

+1

Very crass and thoughtless.

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 22 Dec 2010, 09:55

TT
You seem to be somewhat mistaken as to my beliefs.
Did you write a letter to any MP's or PPC's about the SDSR?
I did, quite a lot of them infact, both whilst it was under review and after it was published, trying to get some of them to wake up and realise what an utter disaster it was.

If you want to compare records on who's done more to stop the flow of crippled soldiers coming back from Ghanners, I'm game.

My point remains.
I did not say that the fact that the NATO convoys from Karachi to Bastion and Khandahar get there because security fees are paid to the very people we fight are ok.
I said it was already well known.
Paying protection money to the hill tribes has just been the way of things for centuries, the Raj did much the same thing.

Is it stupid, yes, the whole damned war is stupid, whats new?

That is extremely patronising from all angles. You are basically saying that no soldier joins the army for patriotic reasons, when in fact, as this story suggests it's quite the opposite. What I see there from the soldiers themselves is that they did sign up for those reasons, however now have become educated and can't get out.

People say lots of things. The Grauniad prints quite a lot more...
I know quite a few soldiers, quite a few people I went to secondary school with went on to be soldiers, some of them were even thrown out for drug use.
Only one of the people I went to school with who ended up in the army actualy said that was his aim at school, the rest, presumably drifted into it.
I didnt say no soldier joins to the army to fight for King and Country, simply that from those I know, it wasnt their primary motivation.

So we target known poverty stricken areas to recruit for the army because if we tried to recruit in areas where there are more options for employment we'd be wasting our time. That is incredibly sad.

Doesnt mean its not true.
Although at the moment, the army isnt targetting anyone, its got to beat applicants off with a stick.

When a corporation targets the poor to recruit for slave labour, we are all up in arms. This is no different.

Are we? Who's We? I certainly dont.

We then use that "middle class" nonsense that says... "but if we didn't give them the work, they would starve to death". In other words, it's justified and makes us feel better!

Again this we. I've advised quite a few people to apply for the army, all of whom fitted my archetype, no qualies no job.
5 Years in the army and they will have lots of qualies and be employable(ish). They'll certainly not be worse off.
And before you ask, RAF Regiment, eye sight well below acceptable levels.

And as for "losses are miniscule in the grand scheme of things", I urge you to rethink that statement and either retract it or clarify it.

The UK has deployed about 50,000 man years to afghanistan (actualy more, but ignore pre 2006), and have suffered 350 dead. A casualty rate of 0.7% per year.
If you join the British Army at Birth, your still more likely to die of old age than Taliban action.
The Newfoundland Regiment suffered 86% casualties in a single morning during The Somme.
371 British soldiers were killed in the four year long Cyprus Emergency
519 were lost in Malaya
Need I carry on?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 22 Dec 2010, 10:11

foodimista wrote:US corporations run the US government and the US government runs the world, et voila.

The world would be a much better place if all documents owned by Monsanto were leaked.

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 22 Dec 2010, 22:07

TroubledTimes wrote:
So we target known poverty stricken areas to recruit for the army because if we tried to recruit in areas where there are more options for employment we'd be wasting our time. That is incredibly sad.

It was ever thus - AIUI there was a deliberate recruitment drive in poorer northern areas during WW1.

When a corporation targets the poor to recruit for slave labour, we are all up in arms. This is no different.

We then use that "middle class" nonsense that says... "but if we didn't give them the work, they would starve to death". In other words, it's justified and makes us feel better!

The poor have always been exploited. I used to feel angry about it, but since I learned about PO I've realised that most of humanity will die off soon anyway and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. I'm not going to waste my time fighting a losing moral battle.

caspian · Post by **caspian** » 23 Dec 2010, 09:40

Ludwig wrote:I used to feel angry about it, but since I learned about PO I've realised that most of humanity will die off soon anyway and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.

Dear god, change your medication please. You're a walking LATOC chicken little. You must be a riot at parties.

nexus · Post by **nexus** » 23 Dec 2010, 13:43

That seems like an overly personal and unjustifiable attack on Ludwig, Caspian. He is entitled to his views.

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 23 Dec 2010, 14:07

caspian wrote:
Ludwig wrote:I used to feel angry about it, but since I learned about PO I've realised that most of humanity will die off soon anyway and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.
Dear god, change your medication please. You're a walking LATOC chicken little. You must be a riot at parties.

If you can't cope with the reality of the situation, that's your problem.

Unlike complacent optimists such as yourself for whom life is just one long party, I've learned through experience that life can be shit, and so I don't smugly expect everything to work out for the best on either a personal or a global level.

So go F--k yourself.

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 23 Dec 2010, 14:43

Ludwig wrote:
caspian wrote:
Ludwig wrote:I used to feel angry about it, but since I learned about PO I've realised that most of humanity will die off soon anyway and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.
Dear god, change your medication please. You're a walking LATOC chicken little. You must be a riot at parties.
If you can't cope with the reality of the situation, that's your problem.

Unlike complacent optimists such as yourself for whom life is just one long party, I've learned through experience that life can be shit, and so I don't smugly expect everything to work out for the best on either a personal or a global level.

So go **** yourself.

You talk as though your grim vision of the future is cast in concrete. There are few things that I can predict as forcefully as you, but the one thing that I can tell you is that you are no prophet, and may well be wrong.

caspian · Post by **caspian** » 23 Dec 2010, 15:17

Ludwig wrote:If you can't cope with the reality of the situation, that's your problem.

It's a "reality" concocted in your mind Ludwig. You have no evidence that things will turn out that way, but you speak as if you absolutely know, 100%, that everything will turn to shit.

Unlike complacent optimists such as yourself for whom life is just one long party, I've learned through experience that life can be shit, and so I don't smugly expect everything to work out for the best on either a personal or a global level.

Firstly, you know nothing about me or my circumstances. Secondly, I'm not an optimist - I'm sure that life is going to get tough and people will become a lot poorer. But I don't go on and on and on about it, grinding people down like the Daily Wail does constantly. No wonder some people are put off joining forums like this, when there are gloomy Marvin-types endlessly promoting doom for all. Not exactly a way to engage people is it?

I don't "smugly" expect anything, and nor is my life "one long party". I think my lifestyle would be regarded as pretty hairshirt by most people's standards.

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 23 Dec 2010, 15:23

caspian wrote:No wonder some people are put off joining forums like this, when there are gloomy Marvin-types endlessly promoting doom for all. Not exactly a way to engage people is it?

Fortunately for newcomers, we have our share of the nutters relishing the prospect of doom too...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 23 Dec 2010, 17:16

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 23 Dec 2010, 17:23

TroubledTimes wrote:It's quite a common phenomenon which usually occurs with males aged between 20 and 30. They leave the comfort of the home and take on responsibility of their own destiny. It can be a huge pressure because males are historically (not necessarily correctly) seen as the breadwinners.

I read a paper on it years ago, and whether it's roller coasters, scary films, or even doom, it challenges their ability to be able to "survive" and to be confident and in control of their own destiny.

As people get jobs, have their own income, live in their own home, have kids etc, they get control and gain confidence, and have the ability to be more pragmatic about survival or life threatening situations.

Whether this is complete cobblers is up for debate, but there's no doubt that some people "get off" on doomer porn so to speak.

Did the paper have any explanation as to why it effects only jingoists of below average intelligence?

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 23 Dec 2010, 18:06

Ludwig wrote:since I learned about PO I've realised that most of humanity will die off soon anyway and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.

Actually, I agree with you - in my case though, I don't think it gives me an automatic excuse to be a pessimist. Struggle with my own version of denial, yes.

Ludwig wrote:I'm not going to waste my time fighting a losing moral battle.

That's part of the fun of being alive. A very small part, but...

Ludwig, I like your posts. Don't let anyone put you off posting. I like a warm kitchen...

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 23 Dec 2010, 18:08

Ludwig wrote: The poor have always been exploited. I used to feel angry about it, but since I learned about PO I've realised that most of humanity will die off soon anyway and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it. I'm not going to waste my time fighting a losing moral battle.

Sounds like the moral battle has already been lost in your mind Ludwig.

I think when it comes to preserving a humanity worth living, if it came to that I would rather go down with my ship.