Lord Beria3 wrote:
As Ludwid says, PO will not come from energy but finance. As economies struggle to grow, their debts will become overwhelming, leading to defaults, economic bankruptsy and so on.
And why will those economies struggle to grow?
Because we've used the cheap oil and are now moving on to the harder to get stuff. Do folk learn nothing on PowerSwitch?
Perhaps you are still blaming the bankers? They may share the responsibility for unfair distribution of wealth but they aren't to blame for geology.
My point Biff, is that scarce energy will translate in the financial realm to the above.
The headlines in the papers won't be that oil prices have hit $150 - growth has ended but rather Britain has failed to borrow its bonds on the market, its credit has been downgraded and 40% cuts in a emergency budget have to be brought in to avoid bankruptcy and anarchy!
Either way, the current higher education system is finished. Regarding the bankers, precisely my point, and that only strengthens my and Ludwigs argument that the cuts are inevitable, the State will have to shrink and tough times are ahead.
You seem to understand the general situation but there is a massive contradiction with your political outlook (opposition to any cuts, your deficit denial and your desire to borrow and spend more rather than less)
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Lord Beria3 wrote:The headlines in the papers won't be that oil prices have hit $150 - growth has ended but rather Britain has failed to borrow its bonds on the market, its credit has been downgraded and 40% cuts in a emergency budget have to be brought in to avoid bankruptcy and anarchy!
Either way, the current higher education system is finished.
Some might say that without adequate education, anarchy is just around the corner.
Lord Beria3 wrote:
You seem to understand the general situation but there is a massive contradiction with your political outlook (opposition to any cuts, your deficit denial and your desire to borrow and spend more rather than less)
Yes, Biff's vision of the future is every bit as denialist as that of those wanting BAU - keep our education and health systems as they are, and let everybody into the country who wants to be here.
He doesn't grasp that you can't do any of this without money and cheap energy.
"We're just waiting, looking skyward as the days go down / Someone promised there'd be answers if we stayed around."
Lord Beria3 wrote:The headlines in the papers won't be that oil prices have hit $150 - growth has ended but rather Britain has failed to borrow its bonds on the market, its credit has been downgraded and 40% cuts in a emergency budget have to be brought in to avoid bankruptcy and anarchy!
Either way, the current higher education system is finished.
Some might say that without adequate education, anarchy is just around the corner.
That may be, but acknowledging it isn't going to magic into existence the money to fund education.
"We're just waiting, looking skyward as the days go down / Someone promised there'd be answers if we stayed around."
Ludwig wrote:...so no, it may well not be TEOTW, but it will be the end of a world you'd want to live in.
If that's what you call "learning the hard way", then you're right, but I suspect you had something cuddlier in mind.
lol how do you know the world I want to live in? I have no illusions about where we are heading, but I also know that I, and those I love will make it. And those that need guidance, if they show willing, will be most welcome.
I will make sure they make it. And yes, I'm an arrogant SOAB and yes I won't carry anyone.
How many people in history do you know that gave up before they've even started? Or given up before first stone has been thrown, or the first shackle applied?
And as for cuddlier... if you need a hug Ludwig just say so. In the meantime, the bars open, so while I sort the lifeboat, why not have another brandy.
First of all, nothing with with a bit of arrogance! Some of the greatest minds in history were unlikeable SOAB
How do you know for certain that your loved ones will be alright? To a certain degree the future is unknowable. You can prepare for what you think will happen but Im not sure you can be so certain about the future.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
Ludwig wrote:keep our education and health systems as they are, and let everybody into the country who wants to be here.
He doesn't grasp that you can't do any of this without money and cheap energy.
For a well-educated mixed-race populace, with minimal health problems and world-class medical staff, with no money, sparse diet and no fossil energy to speak of, see Cuba.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Lord Beria3 wrote:The headlines in the papers won't be that oil prices have hit $150 - growth has ended but rather Britain has failed to borrow its bonds on the market, its credit has been downgraded and 40% cuts in a emergency budget have to be brought in to avoid bankruptcy and anarchy!
Either way, the current higher education system is finished.
Some might say that without adequate education, anarchy is just around the corner.
That may be, but acknowledging it isn't going to magic into existence the money to fund education.
Oh don't be such a pillock. Applying the same taxes that apply to road fuel to aviation fuel would fund it. Closing tax loopholes for the rich & big business would fund it. There are hundreds of ways of funding education, and they're ALL more palatable than another wrecked generation.
Lord Beria3 wrote:ultimately money is just energy. Biff is a denialist
But money is not just energy. They are two utterly different things. Energy can be measured by physical instruments like mass balances and thermometers.
Money can be created at will. It's just promises that may be kept or broken. It's used as an inducement to get people out of armchairs and doing stuff. The trick is to get them to do useful stuff that does not involve burning fossil fuel. So long as the money is used in that direction we can create as much of it as we care to.
Two fundamental facts: There is no debt without a loan. New money can be created out of nothing.
In the meantime, the bars open, so while I sort the lifeboat, why not have another brandy.