I'm thinking of calling an "emergency family meeting" to explain/discuss PO, the credit crunch and the long term problems with energy.
If we are indeed seeing the start of a long-term economic / energy decline then perhaps as many people as possible in one's family should be informed and hopefully influenced.
Is this going to be worth the effort do you think?
Emergency family meetings?
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Could be. My family know what I think about it all anyway, they have seen my preparations and know I am on the end of a 'phone.
Only yesterday my dad was asking me about batteries and how often you have to replace them.
Only yesterday my dad was asking me about batteries and how often you have to replace them.
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
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eatyourveg
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Bedrock Barney
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My family (in common with most people) view the current events as part of the natural cycle of boom and bust and everything will be back to normal in a couple of years. Saying that, I've never actually gone into full on doomer mode with all the facts and figures. It's taken me about three years to get my wife reluctantly on side never mind the rest of the family.
We demand that reality be altered because we don't like it [� oilslick ]
I once broached the idea that 'oil may run out one day', and after a 3 hour diatribe on how I should be more like Jeremy Clarkson, they stopped talking to me. According to them, "it's just because I don't like watching Formula 1 racing." That was about 5 years ago and the situation hasn't changed.
Of course, your family may be a little more open-minded....
Of course, your family may be a little more open-minded....
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Norfolk In Chance
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When I first spoke to my Dad about peak oil he dismissed it as doom- mongering, bad news sells etc... He has however known about Hubbert's Peak for many years. Now he is even more doomerish than I am!
He is forever trying to tell people about peak oil but like me, he has had little success in conveying the message.
Its somewhat ironic that he started out his career working in oil exploration in Libya and now that he is long since retired, he spends every day looking at oil related issues...
He is forever trying to tell people about peak oil but like me, he has had little success in conveying the message.
Its somewhat ironic that he started out his career working in oil exploration in Libya and now that he is long since retired, he spends every day looking at oil related issues...
Re: Emergency family meetings?
Go for it. What can you lose?Vortex wrote:I'm thinking of calling an "emergency family meeting" to explain/discuss PO, the credit crunch and the long term problems with energy.
If we are indeed seeing the start of a long-term economic / energy decline then perhaps as many people as possible in one's family should be informed and hopefully influenced.
Is this going to be worth the effort do you think?
At worse they will just wander off, shaking their heads saying "alas, poor Vortex, such a shame to see him in this state".
But at best they will jump on board immediately, they will start getting involved and sharing ideas etc., and they will start getting their own lives in order. Let's face it, the sooner your family and friends "know" and start preparing, the more likely that they will be able to make a healthy contribution instead of becoming a burden. Sounds a bit harsh, I know...
Then again, having as many trusted friends and family around as possible is a good thing, even if they are currently making no preparations and laughing at the idea of peak oil!
"If we don't change our direction, we are likely to wind up where we are headed" (Chinese Proverb)
I've been telling my girlfriend's elderly (Spanish) parents about PO and its consequences for the last 3 years.... they just thought I was bonkers, and that none of this would happen in their (or our) lifetimes.....
My OH has just got off the phone to them, the Spanish haulage strike's taken them pretty much by surprise, and apparantly, I'm nolonger bonkers...
They've been thinking of taking their savings out of the stock market and buying a house nearer their son (in Spain).... and now want to know which is safer... property or stocks.... I'm thinking that although the property market's supposed to be crashing in Spain, that at least they'll be nearer to family if TSHTF and as this will be the last house they'll own and it'll be bought outright then it doesn't really matter if its value falls, so yes they should get out of the stock market asap..... does this sound like sensible advice?
My OH has just got off the phone to them, the Spanish haulage strike's taken them pretty much by surprise, and apparantly, I'm nolonger bonkers...
They've been thinking of taking their savings out of the stock market and buying a house nearer their son (in Spain).... and now want to know which is safer... property or stocks.... I'm thinking that although the property market's supposed to be crashing in Spain, that at least they'll be nearer to family if TSHTF and as this will be the last house they'll own and it'll be bought outright then it doesn't really matter if its value falls, so yes they should get out of the stock market asap..... does this sound like sensible advice?
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kenneal - lagger
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Stocks are bits of paper at the end of the day, Simon, and what is the base value of a bit of paper. A house will always be a house but be careful where it is. Look at the long term value of each individual house: its location; is it sustainable food water and travel wise?; what's its energy usage?: does it have a garden? Yes, and is it near relatives?
The wrong house could be as valuable as the bits of paper.
The wrong house could be as valuable as the bits of paper.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
Vortex your lucky to have a family that you can communicate with.
My family are appaled that I am changing from being a chartered surveyor to an electrician and will not support me financially.
Im on my own for this career change but know that for me its the right thing to do.
Ill make my own plans regardless of what my family are doing.
My family are appaled that I am changing from being a chartered surveyor to an electrician and will not support me financially.
Im on my own for this career change but know that for me its the right thing to do.
Ill make my own plans regardless of what my family are doing.
I am quite positive about the future of humanity. I know it has too get a whole lot worse before it gets better.
Instead of a great meeting, we keep giving our family little insights into what might happen next.
Of course they are in complete denial if we confront them directly, but just by chipping away we are setting the seed in their minds.
Last year we said, "well, we might be wrong but the things to look out for are- oil prices rising quickly , food shortages in the developing world..."
This year we are cheerily predicting house price drops, interest rate rises, and job losses leading to reposessions.
The main problem seems to be, even if they accept what is happening they haven't a clue what to do about it. Although after the initial feeling of helplessness, they do occasionally make slight lifestyle adjustments in the right direction(well one of them anyway!).
And I suppose they are thinking if things get really bad we will just all move over to Nickos!
Of course they are in complete denial if we confront them directly, but just by chipping away we are setting the seed in their minds.
Last year we said, "well, we might be wrong but the things to look out for are- oil prices rising quickly , food shortages in the developing world..."
This year we are cheerily predicting house price drops, interest rate rises, and job losses leading to reposessions.
The main problem seems to be, even if they accept what is happening they haven't a clue what to do about it. Although after the initial feeling of helplessness, they do occasionally make slight lifestyle adjustments in the right direction(well one of them anyway!).
And I suppose they are thinking if things get really bad we will just all move over to Nickos!
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emordnilap
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I was talking to a financial advisor recently. He said that the market will come back up, "it always does".Bedrock Barney wrote:My family (in common with most people) view the current events as part of the natural cycle of boom and bust and everything will be back to normal in a couple of years. Saying that, I've never actually gone into full on doomer mode with all the facts and figures. It's taken me about three years to get my wife reluctantly on side never mind the rest of the family.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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adam2
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My mother and my sister are gradually becoming more peak oil aware, I have stressed the liklehood of short term disruptions to food and fuel supplies as much as longer term problems.
Since I dont live with mother and sister, I would probably not be with them at least initialy in the event of problems.
I have therefore prepared a book of information that would be useful in an emergency. The contents include
How to replace fuses, reset MCBs, how to check if power is present at the meter.
A brief description of how the UPS works, what it supplies, and the expected battery life.
How to turn off the water to part or all of the house.
How to render drinkable water from the garden water butts, and the location of the required supplies.
A reminder that petrol is stored in red painted jerry cans, and that parrafin is in smaller plastic containers, and that under no circumstances should petrol be used in oil lamps etc.
How to safely use oil lamps, and the location of spare wicks and glasses
How to light tilley lamps, and how to replace the vapouriser or the mantle, and the location of spares.
A reminder in case of long term power failure, to use up frozen food ASAP before UPS battery runs down.
Instruction books for geiger counters, UPS, tilley lamps, water filter, two way radios.
The location of reserve supplies, if not obvious.
Useful telephone numbers.
Since I dont live with mother and sister, I would probably not be with them at least initialy in the event of problems.
I have therefore prepared a book of information that would be useful in an emergency. The contents include
How to replace fuses, reset MCBs, how to check if power is present at the meter.
A brief description of how the UPS works, what it supplies, and the expected battery life.
How to turn off the water to part or all of the house.
How to render drinkable water from the garden water butts, and the location of the required supplies.
A reminder that petrol is stored in red painted jerry cans, and that parrafin is in smaller plastic containers, and that under no circumstances should petrol be used in oil lamps etc.
How to safely use oil lamps, and the location of spare wicks and glasses
How to light tilley lamps, and how to replace the vapouriser or the mantle, and the location of spares.
A reminder in case of long term power failure, to use up frozen food ASAP before UPS battery runs down.
Instruction books for geiger counters, UPS, tilley lamps, water filter, two way radios.
The location of reserve supplies, if not obvious.
Useful telephone numbers.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
I have very little family.
My parents are on an 'inflation proof pension' and in poor health. I tried to get them to do some basic preparations a few years ago (move to smaller house in town, or at least insulate their current house). They didn't do anything. I guess most of their energy is spent coping with life as it is, and are too set in their ways to think far ahead.
That leaves my brother. He is in a secure profession (defense work) and money is not a serious concern. He is so embedded in the consumer society that I don't even broach the subject. He is intelligent and practical. He will adapt as necessary.
My nephew is 25 and a bit of a likely lad. He is in for some shocks when his cosy existence, heavily subsidised by the state, is pulled from under him. However, he is young and reasonably healthy, and without any responsibilities, so it will do him good. I have shown him my set-up, and I will point him in the right direction if he asks for help.
My brother in law's family is relocating to Devon. They have enough problems of their own to inflict more doom and gloom. At least they have chosen a good part of the country. When they are settled, I may bring up the topic again.
My parents are on an 'inflation proof pension' and in poor health. I tried to get them to do some basic preparations a few years ago (move to smaller house in town, or at least insulate their current house). They didn't do anything. I guess most of their energy is spent coping with life as it is, and are too set in their ways to think far ahead.
That leaves my brother. He is in a secure profession (defense work) and money is not a serious concern. He is so embedded in the consumer society that I don't even broach the subject. He is intelligent and practical. He will adapt as necessary.
My nephew is 25 and a bit of a likely lad. He is in for some shocks when his cosy existence, heavily subsidised by the state, is pulled from under him. However, he is young and reasonably healthy, and without any responsibilities, so it will do him good. I have shown him my set-up, and I will point him in the right direction if he asks for help.
My brother in law's family is relocating to Devon. They have enough problems of their own to inflict more doom and gloom. At least they have chosen a good part of the country. When they are settled, I may bring up the topic again.