Branson & Gore : planetary engineers

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Vortex
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Branson & Gore : planetary engineers

Post by Vortex »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070209/sc_ ... prize_dc_2

Airline tycoon Richard Branson announced on Friday a $25 million prize for the first person to come up with a way of scrubbing greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere in the battle to beat global warming.

Hmmm ... where did I put my old Meccano set and my soldering iron ...


My invention to sequester compressed CO2 in the human body ..
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Last edited by Vortex on 09 Feb 2007, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
ianryder
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Post by ianryder »

It just came to me in a blinding flash - if you can prove it doesn't work you don't have to give me the $25 million

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Vortex
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Post by Vortex »

Nah, it'll never work ... not enough LEDs ....
simonrichards912
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Post by simonrichards912 »

I don't understand what Branson is expecting. We have the technology to extract CO2 from air, It is done routinely when air is separated into its constituents parts like nitrogen, oxygen and argon. However it takes a lot of energy to do this. We also already know how to extract CO2 from flue gases.
Money is the root of all evil
Vortex
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Post by Vortex »

They are hoping for an off-the-wall microbial or semiconductor or nanoengineering solution which will save us all!
ianryder
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Post by ianryder »

They are hoping for lots of press.

Surely they must realise anyone who comes up with such an idea will make trillions...why would they do it for $25 million?! Durr, thanks Richard.
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Ballard
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Post by Ballard »

File under 'media stunt' to distract from all his other carbon dioxide releasing businesses, remember image is all that matters!
Vortex
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Post by Vortex »

ianryder wrote:They are hoping for lots of press.

Surely they must realise anyone who comes up with such an idea will make trillions...why would they do it for $25 million?!

Durr, thanks Richard.
No, the mug inventor who enters the competition will make a few million ... the organisers will make the billions.

The small print in the application form will see to that.
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

ianryder wrote:It just came to me in a blinding flash
Ian, I think it might work better with leaves on.


I'll be more impressed with Branson when he drops the Virgin Galactic space tourism venture. The first person up will have the world's biggest personal carbon footprint.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

I think these guys will win, if they enter.

http://www.eprida.com/home/index.php4
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mobbsey
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Re: Branson & Gore : planetary engineers

Post by mobbsey »

Airline tycoon Richard Branson announced on Friday a $25 million prize for the first person to come up with a way of scrubbing greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere in the battle to beat global warming.
Let's think of this in terms of an energy analysis... :shock:

Energy was released, from the bonding energy of the hydrocarbon/carbohydrate compounds when the fuel was burnt. This produces carbon dioxide -- in which the carbon is energetically bound to the oxygen.

To get the carbon back and bond it to something else you have to overcome the bonding energy of the CO2 compound and then produce an inert reactant. That's going to take a fair proportion of the energy released in the first place -- i.e. a significant proportion of the energy that was released during the use of the fuel has to be replaced to bond the CO2 to something else that will render it inert.

Of course, you don't have to go down the chemistry route -- you can use physics. Super-cool the processed air, in much the same way as people like Air Products do in order to produce carbon dioxide, nitrogen and oxygen for industry. But that requires a hell of a lot of energy too!

So:

The whole concept of this project is great where we have a large supply of spare, dense, non-carbon energy sources. but guess what, we don't?

Do you think they'll give me ten quid for two sides of A4 on the science problems at the core of their project? :lol:
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Have you looked at the Eprida solution, Mobbsey? It would seem to work well.

If the Eprida process cannot be done if the plant is not available just small scale charring of organic waste and its incoporation into soil to provide a lesser furtilizer would be benefitial and sequester the carbon that would otherwise return to the atmosphere as CO2 and methane through rotting. If the heat given off could be used as well, that would be an increased efficiency.
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mobbsey
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Post by mobbsey »

kenneal wrote:small scale charring of organic waste and its incoporation into soil to provide a lesser furtilizer would be benefitial and sequester the carbon that would otherwise return to the atmosphere as CO2 and methane through rotting
Globally we're emitting about 7 billion tonnes of carbon -- not carbon dioxide, that's the value of the elemental carbon (see http://intranet/arch_library/energy/cli ... m_cont.htm). Any idea what that looks like? Britain emits 158 million tonnes of carbon.

The other problem is that to ge tthe carbon char out you have to pyrolise the waste, which if it is contaminated (e.g., plastics) can give rise to the production of pollutants like dioxin, and the products of incomplete combustion like benzo-a-pyrene.

By incorporating the carbon in the soil it becomes bio-available. The purpose of the Branson Project is to take the carbon out of the biosphere so that it can no longer affect the climate cycle. Eventually that buried carbon will be cycled back into biomass again.

What really annoys me, particularly with regards to the media, is that no one challenges these ideas with very simple though experiments to test the validity of what proposed (e.g., the energy consumption of immobilising carbon from the atmosphere). E.g. I recently had a really good argument with someone proposing to grow willow in upland Wales to produce "carbon neutral" power from biomass... but it doesn't!! Most of upland Wales is peat -- peat is stored atmospheric carbon. If you grow willow on the peat the peak loses moisture, and the peat breaks down releasing its carbon. This process is already happening with some wind farms, e.g. Cefn Croes, where the trenching to bury cables has drained the peat (Cefn Croes wind farm is actually emitting more carbon than it saves).

There's such a simple solution, and it really pisses me off that people like Greenpeace are afraid to say it -- let's just turn a lot of things off! No carbon trading. No personal carbon allowances, we just stop them. The driver for carbon emissions is economic growth -- as Lord Lawson quite clearly outlined on the R4's The Week in Westminster on Saturday, and it was for this reason he opposed do anything to significantly reduce carbon emissions .

If you want to cut carbon emissions, cut the material excess from our lives. The best way I've seen of doing this is living in a small space -- if you don't have a big house, you can consume to fill it, and a smaller space takes less energy to build and run (see http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/wolfe92.html).
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

Yesterday's, Saturday's, Guardian's backpage was bought by Dale Vince of Ecotricity. It carried an invitaion to Richard Branson to have breakfast with Dale and learn Dale's solution. I suspect it will have more to do with wind turbines than flying on biofuel.
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Post by monster »

Yes I saw that Ad too - surely it must be more than just powering Virgin companies by Ecotricity? or maybe not ??
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