GM foods story in papers

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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

raspberry-blower wrote:Soil Association: Failed Promises: The rise and fall of GM cotton in India

Hyped up as being able to increase yields, reduce costs and be able to withstand pests. In reality the inverse is true - declining yields, costs increased threefold and the Red Queen is in full flow. Pests have rapidly evolved.

No wonder they are switching back to organic. But has the damage been done already?
The GM industry was never about producing crops.
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woodburner
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Post by woodburner »

Soil Association is a bit two faced, at one time I understand they permitted the use of glyphosate.
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Post by RenewableCandy »

I don't think it was Glyphosate, I think it was BT (bacillus thur-summat, in the actual plants rather than put on the soil). Until they discovered how toxic it was to things (iirc) that ate the plants.
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Post by woodburner »

Yep, I could have got that wrong, but there's much else that needs studying

More
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kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

I don't like that article at all. I think that I could go through it and do quite a bit of counter myth busting myself. Yes there are bits that are true but there are also a lot of half truths in it.

The UN has come out and said that the future of feeding the world is in small scale organic farming, i.e. gardening, where the yeilds per acre are much higher than large scale organic farming and even large scale conventional farming.

It definitely does support the idea of knowing where your food comes from though which is the best thing about the article.
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

kenneal - lagger wrote:It definitely does support the idea of knowing where your food comes from though which is the best thing about the article.
Our regional organic growers seem to be good at co-ordinating their crop distribution, meaning each grower can concentrate on what s/he's good at.

It means that our local farmers' market has growers that sell, say, salad crops from 20 kilometres away and spuds from 80 kilometres away or vice versa, depending.

The customer knows the sources of their food whilst spreading the benefit of their money.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Copied from the Neonic ban petition thread

New Groundbreaking Research Shows Glyphosate Persists in Soil.

So Monsanto has been lying to us all along. Surprise! Surprise!
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Post by woodburner »

Possible one of the effects of pesticides

"The fact that flying insects are decreasing at such a high rate in such a large area is an alarming discovery,� he said. “As entire ecosystems are dependent on insects for food and as pollinators, it places the decline of insect eating birds and mammals in a new context. We can barely imagine what would happen if this downward trend continues unabated.�
Anyone who drove a car in the summers during the 1970s should remember the amount of insects that stuck to the front, and the number of moths there were about showing up in headlights. Now there's hardly any insects to clean off, and very few moths to be seen.
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

woodburner wrote:Possible one of the effects of pesticides

"The fact that flying insects are decreasing at such a high rate in such a large area is an alarming discovery,� he said. “As entire ecosystems are dependent on insects for food and as pollinators, it places the decline of insect eating birds and mammals in a new context. We can barely imagine what would happen if this downward trend continues unabated.�
Anyone who drove a car in the summers during the 1970s should remember the amount of insects that stuck to the front, and the number of moths there were about showing up in headlights. Now there's hardly any insects to clean off, and very few moths to be seen.
Yes, I've linked to the Guardian version of the story elsewhere here.

We are still fairly insect-rich where we are (the west of Ireland). Farmers are not big pesticide users here, though one neighbouring farmer does spray certain dock-infested fields. They're trying to keep up the idea of Irish produce being 'pure' in some way, despite the quite high levels of fertiliser they spread.

A lot of slurry is spread in addition to fertiliser, as much to actually dispose of it as anything, it's a pain to deal with otherwise. There will be antibiotics and other chemicals in the slurry.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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Post by woodburner »

The effin idiots are at again

status quo
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Post by johnhemming2 »

The ecology of Planet Earth is rapidly collapsing under a rising tide of toxic pollution and plastic waste as, in every sector of the economy, natural products and methods are replaced with synthetics.
Not actually true.

That is the big problem. A lot of people are campaigning for things that are not actually true.

Take the word "collapsing" and justify it.
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Post by Little John »

The Earth is currently experiencing the largest mass extinction event since the end of the Permian. By any definition, it is reasonable to call that, in ecological terms, a "collapse".
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Post by clv101 »

johnhemming2 wrote:
The ecology of Planet Earth is rapidly collapsing under a rising tide of toxic pollution and plastic waste as, in every sector of the economy, natural products and methods are replaced with synthetics.
Not actually true.

That is the big problem. A lot of people are campaigning for things that are not actually true.

Take the word "collapsing" and justify it.
John, when considering geological timescale, the biosphere absolutely is in collapse. Many of the remaining megafauna are a (and countless smaller species) are all but extinct. The fossil record will likely show *now* +/- a few centuries as the sixth mass extinction event.
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Post by woodburner »

johnhemming2 wrote:
The ecology of Planet Earth is rapidly collapsing under a rising tide of toxic pollution and plastic waste as, in every sector of the economy, natural products and methods are replaced with synthetics.
Not actually true.

That is the big problem. A lot of people are campaigning for things that are not actually true.

Take the word "collapsing" and justify it.
Perhaps you would like to justify why it is not collapsing, in your opinion.

The emperor’s new clothes perhaps?
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

We've lost 70% of farmland birds in the last 10 years and Germany has recorded the same loss of insects in Nature Reserves in the same time period. And that is just for starters.

Then there's fish disappearing from the sea, soil fertility as well as the amount of topsoil that we have to work with is on its way out, human population is still rising putting further pressure on wildlife habitats.

Plants all over the Americas are showing resistance to Glyphosate so Monsanto have re-engineered their Roundup ready crops to be "safe", if that is the right word, to use with a mixture of Roundup and 24D, the herbicide used to defoliate Vietnam and cause massive health problems. Bacteria worldwide are showing resistance to most of our antibiotics and we have very few new ones in the pipeline.

Want more John? (and I can find references for all of these claims if you REALLY need them!)
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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