Railway electrification progress

goslow · Post by **goslow** » 23 Jul 2009, 09:14

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8164070.stm

hurrah! something sensible on railways at last..

Post by **adam2** » 23 Jul 2009, 14:39

Well it certainly sounds like progress, but I wont take it too seriously until I see work start.
I suspect that we will have a few more years of studies and consultations before anything is actually done.

My other concern would be as to what sort of trains we will get.
Prior to being refurbished* the diesel HSTs used were among the best on the network, with facing seats at tables, luggage room, leg room and restaurants.

* Refurbishment consisted of removing most of the tables and moving the seats closer together, and removing most of the catering vehicles.

Whilst new trains dont HAVE to be worse than the old ones, they usually are. Almost all new trains are shorter than the old ones, with reduced legroom, less luggage space, high density bus seats without tables and no restaurant.

Shorter trains with poor facilities wont encourage more people out of cars and on to trains!

In recent years the direct costs of car use have fallen whilst rail fares have increased substantialy.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 23 Jul 2009, 14:53

adam2 wrote:In recent years the direct costs of car use have fallen

True. Petrol prices here are now the same as 2005, as are car insurance costs. Add to that the struggle many car dealers are having selling (and subsequently the better deals to be had), more reliable cars and more roads, plus slight deflation generally...motoring has never been as cheap!

Post by **clv101** » 23 Jul 2009, 15:07

adam2 wrote:* Refurbishment consisted of removing most of the tables and moving the seats closer together, and removing most of the catering vehicles.

And increasing the capacity. There are now more people travelling on trains than there have been in many decades. I'd support the kind of refurbishment you talk of above if it increases the number of seat miles on the network - and therefore enabled seat-mile prices to fall.

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 23 Jul 2009, 17:56

Just make sure they don't sacrifice cycle carrying space, something which I believe Sustrans have campaigned about quite heavily.

Post by **adam2** » 23 Jul 2009, 21:35

Bandidoz wrote:Just make sure they don't sacrifice cycle carrying space, something which I believe Sustrans have campaigned about quite heavily.

They will, the old trains can take a dozen or more cycles in the power cars at each end of the train , originaly intended for mail and parcels.

New trains dont have a gaurds van/parcels van/mail van they have either a small locker for one or at most two cycles, or a few tip up seats, that when folded allow a cycle to be carried.

I am too old and fat to cycle, but would still support cycling, and the cariage of cycles on trains.

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 24 Jul 2009, 10:14

emordnilap wrote:
adam2 wrote:In recent years the direct costs of car use have fallen
True. Petrol prices here are now the same as 2005, as are car insurance costs. Add to that the struggle many car dealers are having selling (and subsequently the better deals to be had), more reliable cars and more roads, plus slight deflation generally...motoring has never been as cheap!

I don't see that situation lasting long, though, once the depletion curve starts.