New coronavirus in/from China

[Little John]

Ken is no longer interested in facts when it comes to Covid19

[Catweazle]

Are there any firm statistics on the number of those people who suffered serious lasting side effects or is this speculation. I'm not doubting there are no examples, but is it frequent? I've only seen specific examples and not statistics. Also what about all the people who have had no heart, lung or other disease treatment due to the lockdown? Or people who will have reduced life expectency due to poor economic outcomes?

There can't be any statistics on lasting effects....yet. Reduced life expectancy or quality due to economic failure is a serious and real effect, it might be more serious than Covid19, it might have happened anyway, it might not, Covid19 might be much more serious that we currently know, it might not.

Many unknowns, it's not flu and anyone claiming to be able to accurately predict the outcome of this based on the behaviour of different earlier virus is talking bollocks.

It seems to me that almost every government in the world is taking precautions based on the unknown nature of Covid19, some people believe they are all acting together in a global conspiracy against freedom.

I have to admit that both are possible, although I find the latter extremely unlikely.

[Little John]

Are there any firm statistics on the number of those people who suffered serious lasting side effects or is this speculation. I'm not doubting there are no examples, but is it frequent? I've only seen specific examples and not statistics. Also what about all the people who have had no heart, lung or other disease treatment due to the lockdown? Or people who will have reduced life expectency due to poor economic outcomes?

There can't be any statistics on lasting effects....yet. Reduced life expectancy or quality due to economic failure is a serious and real effect, it might be more serious than Covid19, it might have happened anyway, it might not, Covid19 might be much more serious that we currently know, it might not.

Many unknowns, it's not flu and anyone claiming to be able to accurately predict the outcome of this based on the behaviour of different earlier virus is talking bollocks.

It seems to me that almost every government in the world is taking precautions based on the unknown nature of Covid19, some people believe they are all acting together in a global conspiracy against freedom.

I have to admit that both are possible, although I find the latter extremely unlikely.

If there aren't any statistics on lasting effects, then you have to ask yourself the question why talking heads are regularly paraded on mainstream media to engage in vague hand waving implying precisely that

As for "unknowns", anybody can speculate about an infinite number of unknowns about absolutely anything. So what?

So, what do we actually know?

60% of people will experience essentially no symptoms

45% of people will show little to a lot of symptoms but will definitely recover.

5% of people will get very ill, and a small sub portion of them will become mortally ill and that small sub portion will comprise of the very elderly and frail or simply very frail. In other words, people who are at risk of dying in the not too distant future in any event.

Those are the facts we know. At least for this strain of the virus. Which is why this strain of the virus is the one the majority of people should have been actively facilitated to get.

[Little John]

Indeed, the latest studies suggest asymptomatic infection may be as high as 80%

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1375

Hey.... but "keep safe"...

f***ing bullshit

[Catweazle]

So, what do we actually know?

60% of people will experience essentially no symptoms

45% of people will show little to a lot of symptoms but will definitely recover.

5% of people will get very ill, and a small sub portion of them will become mortally ill and that small sub portion will comprise of the very elderly and frail or simply very frail. In other words, people who are at risk of dying in the not too distant future in any event.

Those are the facts we know. At least for this strain of the virus. Which is why this strain of the virus is the one the majority of people should have been actively facilitated to get.

Once again you are making up your own "facts". We do not know that your 45% "will definitely recover" because we don't know the long-term effects, and I've already linked to a study that shows asymptomatic people suffering damage.

You can't seem to distinguish "dead" from "damaged", constantly assuming that anyone who lives is fine, and now you suggest that we should actively spread the virus based on your ill-informed assumption.

[Little John]

So, what do we actually know?

60% of people will experience essentially no symptoms

45% of people will show little to a lot of symptoms but will definitely recover.

5% of people will get very ill, and a small sub portion of them will become mortally ill and that small sub portion will comprise of the very elderly and frail or simply very frail. In other words, people who are at risk of dying in the not too distant future in any event.

Those are the facts we know. At least for this strain of the virus. Which is why this strain of the virus is the one the majority of people should have been actively facilitated to get.

Once again you are making up your own "facts". We do not know that your 45% "will definitely recover" because we don't know the long-term effects, and I've already linked to a study that shows asymptomatic people suffering damage.

You can't seem to distinguish "dead" from "damaged", constantly assuming that anyone who lives is fine, and now you suggest that we should actively spread the virus based on your ill-informed assumption.

Oh, I read your links

And I am not assuming anything in the absence of actual numbers. It's you who is doing that.

No part of your links provide their own links to any actual statistics to back up what amounts to no more than hand waving. A typical example being that some people with COPD may suffer complications if they catch Covid 19. Well, no shit Sherlock. Perhaps it might be worth considering that those same people would be equally likely to suffer complications if they caught ordinary flu.

Indeed, you might also wish to ponder on the fact that here in the UK, the Office for National Statistics state that for the last 7 weeks flu is killing 5 times more people than Covid-19 and all deaths are now below the five year average.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... zwQAo8pFQY

If this shit is so serious in terms of large numbers of people suffering long term effects from Covid 19, where are the statistics? Why are those statistics not being screamed from the rooftops?

Oh, and by the way, anecdotes are not statistics.

[Catweazle]

Indeed, you might also wish to ponder on the fact that here in the UK, the Office for National Statistics state that for the last 7 weeks flu is killing 5 times more people than Covid-19 and all deaths are now below the five year average.

Have you forgotten the rapidly rising death rate, and that it was stopped by lockdown ?

The graph is on the link you posted.

Looking at that graph, what do you predict would happen if someone was crazy enough to actively infect the population ?

[Little John]

Indeed, you might also wish to ponder on the fact that here in the UK, the Office for National Statistics state that for the last 7 weeks flu is killing 5 times more people than Covid-19 and all deaths are now below the five year average.

Have you forgotten the rapidly rising death rate, and that it was stopped by lockdown ?

The graph is on the link you posted.

Looking at that graph, what do you predict would happen if someone was crazy enough to actively infect the population ?

Ah, I see... moving the goalposts and erecting Aunt Sallys.

I have not suggested infecting the whole population. Try not to be so hysterical. Only the 60 to 80% for whom there are little to no symptoms and, so far as the statistics clearly show, for whom there is full recovery assuming they even knew they had it at all.

Specifically, in terms of deaths;

We already know who those at risk of dying are. They are the very old and frail or merely the very frail. So, the very old and/or very frail need protecting.

And that is all.

For this strain of the virus

[Catweazle]

You've lost the plot LJ, I can see I'm wasting my time trying to explain anything that doesn't fit your world-view.

[kenneal - lagger]

You've lost the plot LJ, I can see I'm wasting my time trying to explain anything that doesn't fit your world-view.

LJ thinks that we can completely isolate the old and infirm and let the virus rip through the younger population who will be completely unharmed by covid. He doesn't give a damn about the care home workers who will have to isolate with their charges for the length of the pandemic nor about the hospital workers who will have to pick up the pieces, while trying to avoid infection themselves, when breakdowns in the quarantine regime do occur.

In his ideal world nothing can go wrong with his chosen way of life! And there are none of the complications and chronic heart, lung and other effects which doctors are becoming concerned about.

[Little John]

By all means, point me to the stats in those links, if you can, which show significant long term effects on the vast majority of people who get Covid 19

[Little John]

You've lost the plot LJ, I can see I'm wasting my time trying to explain anything that doesn't fit your world-view.

LJ thinks that we can completely isolate the old and infirm and let the virus rip through the younger population who will be completely unharmed by covid. He doesn't give a damn about the care home workers who will have to isolate with their charges for the length of the pandemic nor about the hospital workers who will have to pick up the pieces, while trying to avoid infection themselves, when breakdowns in the quarantine regime do occur.

In his ideal world nothing can go wrong with his chosen way of life! And there are none of the complications and chronic heart, lung and other effects which doctors are becoming concerned about.

I am a care home worker. As such, I am acutely aware of how shitty the actual protection afforded to the people in my care has been

[Little John]

You've lost the plot LJ, I can see I'm wasting my time trying to explain anything that doesn't fit your world-view.

Still waiting for those numbers.....

[kenneal - lagger]

You've lost the plot LJ, I can see I'm wasting my time trying to explain anything that doesn't fit your world-view.

LJ thinks that we can completely isolate the old and infirm and let the virus rip through the younger population who will be completely unharmed by covid. He doesn't give a damn about the care home workers who will have to isolate with their charges for the length of the pandemic nor about the hospital workers who will have to pick up the pieces, while trying to avoid infection themselves, when breakdowns in the quarantine regime do occur.

In his ideal world nothing can go wrong with his chosen way of life! And there are none of the complications and chronic heart, lung and other effects which doctors are becoming concerned about.

I am a care home worker. As such, I am acutely aware of how shitty the actual protection afforded to the people in my care has been

Then your callousness for your charges is even greater, LJ, when you know that keeping them safe is virtually impossible and you are willing to let the virus loose in the younger population.

Still waiting for those numbers.....

Very clever! Asking for numbers on anecdotal evidence for long term effects on a virus which has only been around for 6 months. Still it allows you to turn off any compassion that you might have had and so not trouble your conscience.

Doctors are seeing probable chronic heart, lung and other conditions as well as strokes in covid and ex covid patients and are worried enough to be reporting the sightings. They won't know just how chronic these conditions are for a few years yet and research hasn't yet been undertaken for obvious reasons but, in those doctors opinions there is great cause for concern.

But LJ doesn't want to know because it conflicts with his ridiculous world view of a massive world wide conspiracy to do the working classes down!

[Catweazle]

You've lost the plot LJ, I can see I'm wasting my time trying to explain anything that doesn't fit your world-view.

Still waiting for those numbers.....

For the last time, there are no stats or information on long-term effects because nobody in the world, except LJ, can see into the future.