New coronavirus in/from China
Moderator: Peak Moderation
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kenneal - lagger
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vtsnowedin
- Posts: 6595
- Joined: 07 Jan 2011, 22:14
- Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont
I'm sure those US officials weren't at all intimidated by having people in the crowd carrying rifles. In fact, I'll bet those bullet proof vests they wore were just for fun.ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:Still afraid of those inanimate objects Ken? And now you are extrapolating this phobia to the rest of the EU?kenneal - lagger wrote:But those European deplorables weren't toting guns to intimidate the politicians.
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Snail
"power is the capacity of an individual to influence the conduct (behaviour) of others" - Wikipedia
South Africa has banned cigarettes and alcohol to free up space for future corona victims in hospital
Snp to continue lockdown because that's the responsible thing to do
Ni Sinn Fein wants an r value of 0.5 before lockdown restrictions are lifted in NI because that's the safest way to do it
Politicians politicking, climate changers, Remainers and anti-brexiteers, black and minority spokespeople, trade unionists, bill gatesers, and on and on and on and on and on. Power-hungry groups and individuals.
Using this 'crisis' to further their influence over others.
South Africa has banned cigarettes and alcohol to free up space for future corona victims in hospital
Snp to continue lockdown because that's the responsible thing to do
Ni Sinn Fein wants an r value of 0.5 before lockdown restrictions are lifted in NI because that's the safest way to do it
Politicians politicking, climate changers, Remainers and anti-brexiteers, black and minority spokespeople, trade unionists, bill gatesers, and on and on and on and on and on. Power-hungry groups and individuals.
Using this 'crisis' to further their influence over others.
I, like Ken, and almost everybody else, have no fear of inanimate objects, as you well know. Ken has a rifle and I have several. They're very useful, I used mine yesterday. Fortunately there was only one fox, he wasn't an elected official and was unarmed, so I didn't feel disadvantaged at not being allowed to stand outside the town hall with a battle rifle and body armour.ReserveGrowthRulz wrote:You've shown pictures of your rifle and pistol at the range Cat, do you wear body armor for fear of incompetent use of inanimate objects there?
At the range, closed for a while by Covid19, we take many precautions against incompetent use of firearms - compulsory training and supervision for newcomers and dedicated range officers at all times. In fact, the precautions start before a member even has a firearm, with comprehensive background checks. It works for us, there have been instances in the past where firearms owners have lost their minds and killed people, but thankfully it's very rare.
An interesting (US) article on the epidemiology:
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-ri ... avoid-them
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-ri ... avoid-them
Indoor spaces, with limited air exchange or recycled air and lots of people, are concerning from a transmission standpoint. We know that 60 people in a volleyball court-sized room (choir) results in massive infections. Same situation with the restaurant and the call center. Social distancing guidelines don't hold in indoor spaces where you spend a lot of time, as people on the opposite side of the room were infected.
The principle is viral exposure over an extended period of time. In all these cases, people were exposed to the virus in the air for a prolonged period (hours). Even if they were 50 feet away (choir or call center), even a low dose of the virus in the air reaching them, over a sustained period, was enough to cause infection and in some cases, death.
Social distancing rules are really to protect you with brief exposures or outdoor exposures. In these situations there is not enough time to achieve the infectious viral load when you are standing 6 feet apart or where wind and the infinite outdoor space for viral dilution reduces viral load. The effects of sunlight, heat, and humidity on viral survival, all serve to minimize the risk to everyone when outside.
When assessing the risk of infection (via respiration) at the grocery store or mall, you need to consider the volume of the air space (very large), the number of people (restricted), how long people are spending in the store (workers - all day; customers - an hour). Taken together, for a person shopping: the low density, high air volume of the store, along with the restricted time you spend in the store, means that the opportunity to receive an infectious dose is low. But, for the store worker, the extended time they spend in the store provides a greater opportunity to receive the infectious dose and therefore the job becomes more risky.
Basically, as the work closures are loosened, and we start to venture out more, possibly even resuming in-office activities, you need to look at your environment and make judgments. How many people are here, how much airflow is there around me, and how long will I be in this environment. If you are in an open floorplan office, you really need to critically assess the risk (volume, people, and airflow). If you are in a job that requires face-to-face talking or even worse, yelling, you need to assess the risk.
If you are sitting in a well ventilated space, with few people, the risk is low.
If I am outside, and I walk past someone, remember it is “dose and time� needed for infection. You would have to be in their airstream for 5+ minutes for a chance of infection. While joggers may be releasing more virus due to deep breathing, remember the exposure time is also less due to their speed. Please do maintain physical distance, but the risk of infection in these scenarios are low. Here is a great article in Vox that discusses the low risk of running and cycling in detail.
While I have focused on respiratory exposure here, please don't forget surfaces. Those infected respiratory droplets land somewhere. Wash your hands often and stop touching your face!
As we are allowed to move around our communities more freely and be in contact with more people in more places more regularly, the risks to ourselves and our family are significant. Even if you are gung-ho for reopening and resuming business as usual, do your part and wear a mask to reduce what you release into the environment. It will help everyone, including your own business.
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vtsnowedin
- Posts: 6595
- Joined: 07 Jan 2011, 22:14
- Location: New England ,Chelsea Vermont
Makes that commute into the city on the tube look like a death trap.Mark wrote:An interesting (US) article on the epidemiology:
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-ri ... avoid-them
Indoor spaces, with limited air exchange or recycled air and lots of people, are concerning from a transmission standpoint. We know that 60 people in a volleyball court-sized room (choir) results in massive infections. Same situation with the restaurant and the call center. Social distancing guidelines don't hold in indoor spaces where you spend a lot of time, as people on the opposite side of the room were infected.
The principle is viral exposure over an extended period of time. In all these cases, people were exposed to the virus in the air for a prolonged period (hours). Even if they were 50 feet away (choir or call center), even a low dose of the virus in the air reaching them, over a sustained period, was enough to cause infection and in some cases, death.
Social distancing rules are really to protect you with brief exposures or outdoor exposures. In these situations there is not enough time to achieve the infectious viral load when you are standing 6 feet apart or where wind and the infinite outdoor space for viral dilution reduces viral load. The effects of sunlight, heat, and humidity on viral survival, all serve to minimize the risk to everyone when outside.
When assessing the risk of infection (via respiration) at the grocery store or mall, you need to consider the volume of the air space (very large), the number of people (restricted), how long people are spending in the store (workers - all day; customers - an hour). Taken together, for a person shopping: the low density, high air volume of the store, along with the restricted time you spend in the store, means that the opportunity to receive an infectious dose is low. But, for the store worker, the extended time they spend in the store provides a greater opportunity to receive the infectious dose and therefore the job becomes more risky.
Basically, as the work closures are loosened, and we start to venture out more, possibly even resuming in-office activities, you need to look at your environment and make judgments. How many people are here, how much airflow is there around me, and how long will I be in this environment. If you are in an open floorplan office, you really need to critically assess the risk (volume, people, and airflow). If you are in a job that requires face-to-face talking or even worse, yelling, you need to assess the risk.
If you are sitting in a well ventilated space, with few people, the risk is low.
If I am outside, and I walk past someone, remember it is “dose and time� needed for infection. You would have to be in their airstream for 5+ minutes for a chance of infection. While joggers may be releasing more virus due to deep breathing, remember the exposure time is also less due to their speed. Please do maintain physical distance, but the risk of infection in these scenarios are low. Here is a great article in Vox that discusses the low risk of running and cycling in detail.
While I have focused on respiratory exposure here, please don't forget surfaces. Those infected respiratory droplets land somewhere. Wash your hands often and stop touching your face!
As we are allowed to move around our communities more freely and be in contact with more people in more places more regularly, the risks to ourselves and our family are significant. Even if you are gung-ho for reopening and resuming business as usual, do your part and wear a mask to reduce what you release into the environment. It will help everyone, including your own business.
I have seen those effects from February [and said so previously]. Whenever you visit a supermarket - throat tickle and bunged up sinus. I usual have chronic nose bugs anyway due to immune issues. This might make me more sensitive to the 1st stage but, it's now believed to prime you to a new coronavirus for those T cells.
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eatyourveg
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: 15 Jul 2007, 17:02
- Location: uk
[quote="Mark"]An interesting (US) article on the epidemiology:
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-ri ... avoid-them
[quote]Indoor spaces, with limited air exchange or recycled air and lots of people, are concerning from a transmission standpoint. We know that 60 people in a volleyball court-sized room (choir) results in massive infections. Same situation with the restaurant and the call center. Social distancing guidelines don't hold in indoor spaces where you spend a lot of time, as people on the opposite side of the room were infected.
And so on........
Yes, an interesting article. I have a campsite and it looks like a possible July opening so I think I'll be heeding a lot of that info in the risk assessment I'll be doing. It seems that limiting numbers and time spent in the bog block will be the most important thing. A great opportunity to get away with prodding people with a 6' long pole too if they get too chummy regarding personal space (obviously with a nail poking out the end to make things obvious).
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-ri ... avoid-them
[quote]Indoor spaces, with limited air exchange or recycled air and lots of people, are concerning from a transmission standpoint. We know that 60 people in a volleyball court-sized room (choir) results in massive infections. Same situation with the restaurant and the call center. Social distancing guidelines don't hold in indoor spaces where you spend a lot of time, as people on the opposite side of the room were infected.
And so on........
Yes, an interesting article. I have a campsite and it looks like a possible July opening so I think I'll be heeding a lot of that info in the risk assessment I'll be doing. It seems that limiting numbers and time spent in the bog block will be the most important thing. A great opportunity to get away with prodding people with a 6' long pole too if they get too chummy regarding personal space (obviously with a nail poking out the end to make things obvious).
"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools". Douglas Bader.
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eatyourveg
- Posts: 1289
- Joined: 15 Jul 2007, 17:02
- Location: uk
We aren't all terrified, but some of us live with others in a high risk category and do not feel inclined to take risks that will potentially kill them.boisdevie wrote:But the point is that a normal healthy person getting a dose won't be fatal so why are we all so terrified?
"Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools". Douglas Bader.
I understand that and sympathise but lots of healthy people who need not be terrified are being terrified by the politicians and their supine media.eatyourveg wrote:We aren't all terrified, but some of us live with others in a high risk category and do not feel inclined to take risks that will potentially kill them.boisdevie wrote:But the point is that a normal healthy person getting a dose won't be fatal so why are we all so terrified?
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Snail
Yes, no need to panic anymore. It looked as if the potential was there months ago. Especially with china and the WHO playing games. It's time to start being more calm and reasoned.
Meanwhile, the SNP in Scotland have decided to continue playing petty politics and won't lift ANY restrictions until 28 may. Pathetic.
Why not open garden centres, or car dealerships, or any shop. What is the difference between a small co-op and any other type of shop.
The science is perfectly clear but scots still can't even sit in a park.
Everybody panicked at the start. Maybe with good reason. BUT THERE ISNT ANY NEED TO CONTINUE PANICKING. Reality no longer supports the current narrative.
Just admit we got it wrong and begin mending what damage we can.
We are now being used and abused by various fuckwits for reasons other than coronavirus.
Meanwhile, the SNP in Scotland have decided to continue playing petty politics and won't lift ANY restrictions until 28 may. Pathetic.
Why not open garden centres, or car dealerships, or any shop. What is the difference between a small co-op and any other type of shop.
The science is perfectly clear but scots still can't even sit in a park.
Everybody panicked at the start. Maybe with good reason. BUT THERE ISNT ANY NEED TO CONTINUE PANICKING. Reality no longer supports the current narrative.
Just admit we got it wrong and begin mending what damage we can.
We are now being used and abused by various fuckwits for reasons other than coronavirus.