Brexit process

[kenneal - lagger]

Until there is a scientific trial to prove that it remains a theory. The smaller fish that escape are the younger fish and they may well breed earlier than they might have done with a lower population pressure. Or maybe they are all breeding just the same but the overfishing has just removed the larger fish from the oceans.

There is thought along similar lines over elephants and tusk length where the male elephants with the longer tucks have all been killed by poachers leaving only male elephants with smaller tucks to breed.

[woodburner]

Until there is a scientific trial to prove that it remains a theory. The smaller fish that escape are the younger fish and they may well breed earlier than they might have done with a lower population pressure. Or maybe they are all breeding just the same but the overfishing has just removed the larger fish from the oceans.

There is thought along similar lines over elephants and tusk length where the male elephants with the longer tucks have all been killed by poachers leaving only male elephants with smaller tucks to breed.

You will probably won’t accept this as it will unlikely fit your beliefs.

However, here is a paper but you will have to register to read more than the abstract.

[kenneal - lagger]

...........You will probably won’t accept ......... as it will unlikely fit your beliefs.

The smaller fish that escape are the younger fish and they may well breed earlier than they might have done with a lower population pressure

As there is science to support the theory in am quite happy to accept it and from my original post you can clearly see that it accords with my beliefs. I have also advocated MPAs as are called for in the first article.

However, you still haven't explained how you catch only medium and smaller size fish.

The answer is an expansion of MPAs, the continuation of quotas and the discard ban and the incorporation of what would have been discards into the current quota amount.

In the Grand Banks fishing area there was a complete collapse of the fishery which resulted in a complete ban of fishing for a number of decades, I think. If there were areas of the UK approaching a "Grand Banks" event, yes, there should be a complete fishing ban but in many areas of the UK fish numbers are on the increase. This calls for keeping the numbers fished at current levels so that the numbers can increase further. And an expansion of the MPAs would also help.

There is a lot of science which points to ban on trawling so that the complete marine ecosystem can recover and I would support that as well.

[BritDownUnder]

Personally I don't eat a lot of fish but I probably should.

If having a moratorium on fishing helps then I am all for it. If the UK politicians give Spanish the right/a concession to fish British waters after Brexit and it harms the fisheries further then I am not for it. I recall once upon a time that Cornish fishermen flew the Canadian flag because of the steps taken by Canada to stop Spanish fishing on the Grand Banks and maybe elsewhere too and to contrast that with the UK's stance. I also recall watching a TV program that interviewed African fishermen, possibly from Senegal, who said that much larger Spanish fishing boats simply cut a swathe through fleets of tiny African fishing boats off the African coast.

Perhaps the mentality is that fisheries are viewed as a non-renewable resource rather than a renewable resource and are fished accordingly, particularly when they are not located in the sovereign waters of the boats doing the fishing.

[woodburner]

Waiting for a “Grand banks� event before stopping fishing is too late. Instead of asking me suggesting how to catch the medium and small ones without catching the big ones, stop fishing until YOU have worked out how to do it. The penalty for not doing so wil be no fish at all.

[kenneal - lagger]

It isn't necessary to stop fishing completely; catching the same number of fish allowed under current quota schemes and the establishment of more MPAs will be sufficient. The number and size of some of the once endangered fish caught around our coasts is increasing already. A ban on trawling might also be a good idea to allow our sea bed to regenerate.

[johnhemming2]

So the CFP is having the effect of increasing fish stocks.

[BritDownUnder]

I like this quote from Wikipedia. Free trade (or should that be free-greed) at its finest!

The first rules were created in 1970. The original six Common Market members realised that four countries applying to join the Common Market at that time (Britain, Ireland, Denmark including Greenland, and Norway) would control the richest fishing grounds in the world. The original six therefore drew up Council Regulation 2141/70 giving all Members equal access to all fishing waters, even though the Treaty of Rome did not explicitly include fisheries in its agriculture chapter. This was adopted on the morning of 30 June 1970, a few hours before the applications to join were officially received. This ensured that the regulations became part of the acquis communautaire before the new members joined, obliging them to accept the regulation. In its accession negotiations, the UK at first refused to accept the rules but by the end of 1971 the UK gave way and signed the Accession Treaty on 22 January 1972, thereby bringing into the CFP joint management an estimated four fifths of all the fish off Western Europe.[citation needed] Norway decided not to join. Greenland left the EC in 1985, after having gained partial independence from Denmark in 1979.

Like most clubs, first-in-best-dressed.

[vtsnowedin]

I got an Email from the Massachusetts Fish department this week. They are debating a zero limit for cod Or one fish 19" plus for recreational fisherman but letting them keep 10 or 12 Haddock 17" plus. depending on which rule they adopt. This is the stupidest thing I have seen in years as when we a gigging for haddock we would be bringing up dozens of cod we would have to throw back and watch die (as being dragged up out of 200+ feet of water usually kills them no matter how gently released) along with what ever number of undersized haddock we had to throw back to die as well.
If they adopt either of these rules there will be no point in going out except to put around Quincy bay and try for a few flounder.

[kenneal - lagger]

I wouldn't have thought that recreational fishermen would catch a significant number of fish to warrant policing but again it should be on the number of fish caught and not of a certain species as you can't guarantee to catch only a certain species. Bureaucrats!!

[kenneal - lagger]

So the CFP is having the effect of increasing fish stocks.

According to anecdotal evidence from fishermen's sources heard on the TV news, yes.

[vtsnowedin]

I wouldn't have thought that recreational fishermen would catch a significant number of fish to warrant policing but again it should be on the number of fish caught and not of a certain species as you can't guarantee to catch only a certain species. Bureaucrats!!

At $3.00/ pound in the whole four guys can do pretty well if they are biting. Years ago we had days where we ran out of fish holds to put them in.
Throwing back injured and dying fish (bycatch) is what galls me. If it is legal to put a line or net in the water anything that comes up should be put to the best possible use and not wasted. Once you catch a limit by weight or fish number your done and can't fish any more that day or season which would reduce the number of times a line or net went into the water and disturb the spawning fish population less then what they are doing now.

[kenneal - lagger]

Aren't quotas a bit "Socialist" for your Republican leanings, VT?

[Little John]

If Jeremy Corbyn, tomorrow, reiterates what Kier Starmer has said today, then Frank Field is right and Labour is "ratting" on Labour Leave voters in the North by plotting to stay in the customs Union.

[johnhemming2]

Not all Labour voters support leaving the EU. What about the Labour remain voters?