Yeah, I understand electric fencing is a necessity to keep them in?SunnyJim wrote:Goats. Buggers to keep contained, but will munch brambles and the like....
Running away to Wales.
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hardworkinghippy
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Oh great Tess - that was quick ! 
I wouldn't use electric fencing for goats, use 120cm sheep netting.
You'll need a line of electric along the bottom for the pigs though...
I wouldn't use electric fencing for goats, use 120cm sheep netting.
You'll need a line of electric along the bottom for the pigs though...
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hardworkinghippy
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kenneal - lagger
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Well done, Tess.
Can I recommend putting a brushcutter or scythe over the land, followed by silage wrap plastic with a few old tyres on top and just roll it back as you need the land. After a couple of years covered you'll be able to turn the ground over with a flick of the fork.
Waterproof the house first and then insulate. Do the roof first, then the walls, preferably on the outside and don't forget the floor, although you can take care of that, as long as you don't have water running under the house, by extending the wall insulation below the ground. That might be a bit difficult if you're on rock, though. Wood might be cheap but if you don't have to buy it and chop it, it will save you a lot of time and money that can be better used on other things in the long run. Insulation will last for ever but cheap wood might not.
I wish I'd insulated my walls as I built them, now. Filling a wood shed is very satisfying but my back aches afterwards and, as I said, there are other things I could be doing.
As far a goats go, I would keep the bugger in a strong shed and take its food to it. It won't get into your garden then. If you insist on keeping one outside, 1200 pig net, its heavier than sheep net and will resist climbing better, with a strand of electric along the top might keep it in. You can move the electric fence to the bottom when you have a pig in the field. As you might have guessed, I'm not all that enamoured with goats. Been there 150 times over, done that and got the t-shirt. Never again because I value my vegetable garden.
A pig, or two is better, kept in a sty, even, can be very useful for cleaning up nettle, dock and dandelion roots.
Can I recommend putting a brushcutter or scythe over the land, followed by silage wrap plastic with a few old tyres on top and just roll it back as you need the land. After a couple of years covered you'll be able to turn the ground over with a flick of the fork.
Waterproof the house first and then insulate. Do the roof first, then the walls, preferably on the outside and don't forget the floor, although you can take care of that, as long as you don't have water running under the house, by extending the wall insulation below the ground. That might be a bit difficult if you're on rock, though. Wood might be cheap but if you don't have to buy it and chop it, it will save you a lot of time and money that can be better used on other things in the long run. Insulation will last for ever but cheap wood might not.
I wish I'd insulated my walls as I built them, now. Filling a wood shed is very satisfying but my back aches afterwards and, as I said, there are other things I could be doing.
As far a goats go, I would keep the bugger in a strong shed and take its food to it. It won't get into your garden then. If you insist on keeping one outside, 1200 pig net, its heavier than sheep net and will resist climbing better, with a strand of electric along the top might keep it in. You can move the electric fence to the bottom when you have a pig in the field. As you might have guessed, I'm not all that enamoured with goats. Been there 150 times over, done that and got the t-shirt. Never again because I value my vegetable garden.
A pig, or two is better, kept in a sty, even, can be very useful for cleaning up nettle, dock and dandelion roots.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
We've had ducks: VERY, VERY messy ... and incredibly dumb. Never again.
Muscovy ducks however are great ... more like placid geese .. but they are UGLY (to outsiders) and very big.
You can't persuade them to 'go to bed' at the end of the day .. so we lost ours to foxes and once to a badger.
(Badgers are NOT cuddly .. they are heavy, run fast and have very nasty teeth)
Muscovy ducks however are great ... more like placid geese .. but they are UGLY (to outsiders) and very big.
You can't persuade them to 'go to bed' at the end of the day .. so we lost ours to foxes and once to a badger.
(Badgers are NOT cuddly .. they are heavy, run fast and have very nasty teeth)
Goats .. random brain dump:
Get a breed which you can lift if they go down ... some are VERY heavy.
Don't get a mountain goat style breed ... for obvious reasons.
Goats need either a paved area which you can keep clean ... or a LOT of grass. Don't just give them a small grass patch as it will turn to mud and will become infested with parasites etc.
Stick to females: billies smell ... and you can always borrow one when needed!
Get a least a pair: it's not fair to have single animals - they need company.
Goats like to stand on the mesh of fences, so fit a rail at about 2-3 feet high for their feet to rest on, otherwise the fence will get wrecked.
We use stock fencing plus rail and post for the 'pretty' front side of the fence.
Do not use barbed wire along the top of any fence .. a failed jump will hurt the animals badly.
For the side & rear fencing we use Heras site panels plus metal sheep hurdles to reinforce the lower part.
Electric fencing will reduce the physical abuse to the main fence, so it will last longer.
We have two sheds: one with wide doors for a milking area, and another for their sleeping area.
Note that some goats give 'strange' tasting milk when they are on heat.
Be careful when buying the goats: it seems that quite often newbies end up with runts or genetically duff goats that the vendor wants to get rid of!
Get a breed which you can lift if they go down ... some are VERY heavy.
Don't get a mountain goat style breed ... for obvious reasons.
Goats need either a paved area which you can keep clean ... or a LOT of grass. Don't just give them a small grass patch as it will turn to mud and will become infested with parasites etc.
Stick to females: billies smell ... and you can always borrow one when needed!
Get a least a pair: it's not fair to have single animals - they need company.
Goats like to stand on the mesh of fences, so fit a rail at about 2-3 feet high for their feet to rest on, otherwise the fence will get wrecked.
We use stock fencing plus rail and post for the 'pretty' front side of the fence.
Do not use barbed wire along the top of any fence .. a failed jump will hurt the animals badly.
For the side & rear fencing we use Heras site panels plus metal sheep hurdles to reinforce the lower part.
Electric fencing will reduce the physical abuse to the main fence, so it will last longer.
We have two sheds: one with wide doors for a milking area, and another for their sleeping area.
Note that some goats give 'strange' tasting milk when they are on heat.
Be careful when buying the goats: it seems that quite often newbies end up with runts or genetically duff goats that the vendor wants to get rid of!
Thanks for the advice Ken. I'm told the walls of the place were insulated with sheepswool when new wooden cladding was added a few years ago. And some minimal roof insulation was done when the new roof was put on in 2005. But I think that needs improving.kenneal wrote:Well done, Tess.
Can I recommend putting a brushcutter or scythe over the land, followed by silage wrap plastic with a few old tyres on top and just roll it back as you need the land. After a couple of years covered you'll be able to turn the ground over with a flick of the fork.
Waterproof the house first and then insulate. Do the roof first, then the walls, preferably on the outside and don't forget the floor, although you can take care of that, as long as you don't have water running under the house, by extending the wall insulation below the ground. That might be a bit difficult if you're on rock, though. Wood might be cheap but if you don't have to buy it and chop it, it will save you a lot of time and money that can be better used on other things in the long run. Insulation will last for ever but cheap wood might not.
I like the idea of covering the land until it's needed. We did that at the allotment last year and it worked very well.
Awesome stuff Tess - are you going to keep your boat as a 'second home' in London?
Andy Hunt
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http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
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biffvernon
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Nice move, Tess.
I kept goats for years and came to the conclusion they were best kept by someone else somehere else.
Covering ground with plastic can get rid of weeds but it never strikes me as being very permaculturery. Earth ought to be constantly growing something, temporary weeds being called 'green manure' or 'potential compost' or some other sunshine harvesting device. Plastic covers just waste the sun.
Here are a couple of pics I took a few weeks ago of my old veg plot and the new extension, which has just been doubled with the help of labour from Help Exchange, a briliant scheme if you need help.
I kept goats for years and came to the conclusion they were best kept by someone else somehere else.
Covering ground with plastic can get rid of weeds but it never strikes me as being very permaculturery. Earth ought to be constantly growing something, temporary weeds being called 'green manure' or 'potential compost' or some other sunshine harvesting device. Plastic covers just waste the sun.
Here are a couple of pics I took a few weeks ago of my old veg plot and the new extension, which has just been doubled with the help of labour from Help Exchange, a briliant scheme if you need help.
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hardworkinghippy
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Biffvernon,
What a really wonderful garden and the house looks glorious !
I can see there are a lot of smallholders in here dying to give tips about goats and stuff so people like Tess who've made the jump into the unknown won't go short of advice.
I must admit that all this financial, calculations and "what would happen if" stuff does my brain in and I'd love it if there were more discussions about ":tinhat: whatwegonnado?
".
Once I get my new computer sorted out and the long nights really arrive I'll be dying for people to talk to....
What a really wonderful garden and the house looks glorious !
I can see there are a lot of smallholders in here dying to give tips about goats and stuff so people like Tess who've made the jump into the unknown won't go short of advice.
I must admit that all this financial, calculations and "what would happen if" stuff does my brain in and I'd love it if there were more discussions about ":tinhat: whatwegonnado?
". Once I get my new computer sorted out and the long nights really arrive I'll be dying for people to talk to....
Our blah blah blah blog is HERE
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Ippoippo
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Nice one Tess.Tess wrote: We're considering various ways to earn money while keeping it all strictly part time. I'm considering short term IT contracts in london (3-6 months) as required, or getting trained to teach software development which can be done on a part time contract basis.
I think I even know which one you may have got as well (followed some of the links earlier in the thread, and spotted a place that seemed nice... hell, if it wasn't for my other half, I probably would have gone for this place too).
IT wise in this part of the country is not great. The downside as well is that one of the big IT dev projects in the approx. area has had budgets cut and a lot of the contractors will probably be going aware in the coming months (I'm a permy, so I've got 'relative' job security while I retrain part-time).
If you need any info on this, just PM me, and I can pass on what I know.
Goats are quite a nightmare. We had a large one in our garden briefly (no idea of breed) that escaped from an area with 6 ft high wooden fences! It wouldn't leave our property. 
Nobody could catch it - they are strong buggers and fast. Eventually a farmer had to shoot it with a tranqualiser and even then it was still a struggle "rescueing" it. I never plan to have one!
Good luck with your new place Tess. Sounds brilllllllaint.
Nobody could catch it - they are strong buggers and fast. Eventually a farmer had to shoot it with a tranqualiser and even then it was still a struggle "rescueing" it. I never plan to have one! Good luck with your new place Tess. Sounds brilllllllaint.
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emordnilap
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