Ralphw2 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 07:08
Russia has been systematically targeting Ukrainian infrastructure, after its initial invasion was repulsed with massive Russian losses. The reason that they have not destroyed the country is they do not have air superiority and Ukraine has been given a lot of air defences systems, Russia
only recently developed tactics that have had success on the front lines
/sigh
Where to start?
Of course Russia is targeting critical infrastructure and Ukraine is doing the same.
Air superiority? I must have missed all the reports of Ukrainian air superiority. So if the Ukraine has air superiority already why all the demands for F16s?
You still sound as though you think Ukraine will ‘win’.
I think this will end up in the ignominious abandonment of Ukraine by the west.
Kiev doesn't look like Gaza because the Russians want to retain some infrastructure for plunder and people for Russification. A bit like all the tractors and washing machines they stole early on. The did blow up the Khakovka dam though, denying their water supply for Crimea so are not too careful. Russian troops also murdered the leading pro-Russian politician in the pre-war Ukrainian parliament while they were looting his house in Bucha early on in the war.
One hopes these new supplies of weapons cause a few Russian casualties. Personally I think they need some decent air defence systems to replace all the destroyed ones. As far as I know the UK does not manufacture any so we should leave it to Germany and the US to supply these. I hear the UK was also paying for Paveway bombs which are also not UK manufactured so I understand so I don't see why the UK is paying for these either.
I read the article on Kiev and it was great. Amazing how many owners it has had over the years. The fascist locals don't seem too keen on it being Russian right now though and having hoe their fields and hand wash their clothing.
BDU: “Kiev doesn't look like Gaza because the Russians want to retain some infrastructure for plunder”
Is that really your considered opinion?
BDU: “Kiev doesn't look like Gaza because the Russians want to retain some infrastructure for plunder”
You think the reason for this whole catastrophe is that Russia wants to plunder Kiev’s tractors and washing machines?
Kiev doesn’t look like Gaza because the Russians haven’t shock and awe carpet bombed it.
Russia has massive resources that the rest of the world need, want and compete to buy. And the uk etc are still buying Russian oil, gas and commodities. All the sanctions have achieved is to make these far more expensive for us.
Then you go on about stealing tractors and washing machines. WTF?
What are you smoking?
A serious question for you BDU:
How do you see this confrontation ending? Will it just end up as another frantic retreat by nato backed forces like the end of the Afghanistan war? Will Australian tractors and washing machines be safe in the shining new era?
Will this end with the Ukraine better off than it was back in 2014?
I’m sure we’re all very interested in your view on how this could work out - so do please share
BritDownUnder wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 12:51
I read the article on Kiev and it was great. Amazing how many owners it has had over the years. The fascist locals don't seem too keen on it being Russian right now though
You really did say this . . .
“The fascist locals don't seem too keen on it being Russian right now”?
Russia has claimed from the start that one of its aims was “Denazification“. So are you admitting that ‘the locals’ in Kiev are fascist?
If you remember this is what the whole Second World War was about
If you try really hard, BDU, you might eventually manage to open your mouth without putting your foot in it.
There won't be any 'winners' in this - only losers....
It's just a matter of who loses more - in my opinion, that's currently Russia, but it's not concluded yet....
Some song lyrics, courtesy of Edwin Starr...
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, uhh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all
War, huh (good God)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, listen to me, oh
War, I despise
'Cause it means destruction of innocent lives
War means tears to thousands of mother's eyes
When their sons go off to fight
And lose their lives
I said, war, huh (good God, y'all)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, just say it again
War (whoa), huh (oh Lord)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, listen to me
It ain't nothing but a heart-breaker
(War) Friend only to The Undertaker
Oh, war it's an enemy to all mankind
The thought of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die? Oh
War, huh (good God y'all)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
War (uh-huh), huh (yeah, huh)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, listen to me
It ain't nothing but a heart-breaker
(War) It's got one friend that's The Undertaker
Oh, war, has shattered many a young man's dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much too short and precious
To spend fighting wars each day
War can't give life
It can only take it away, oh
War, huh (good God y'all)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, say it again
War (whoa), huh (oh Lord)
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing, listen to me
It ain't nothing but a heart breaker
(War) Friend only to The Undertaker, woo
Peace, love and understanding, tell me
Is there no place for them today?
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there's got to be a better way, oh
War, huh (God y'all)
What is it good for? You tell me (nothing)
Say it, say it, say it, say it
War (good God), huh (now, huh)
What is it good for?
Stand up and shout it (nothing)
Mark wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 15:27
It's just a matter of who loses more - in my opinion, that's currently Russia, but it's not concluded yet....
What's your honourable opinión based upon?
I’m really not sure Russia is losing here Mark. Are you? Perhaps you could share your statistics showing that?
Perhaps you could say just what Ukraine winning would be like and how we would all know Ukraine had won?
Russia is currently out producing the whole of NATO in ammunition for Ukraine (check that before you question it) and their economy is doing far better than ours since we sanctioned our own nose to spite our face
Take a few minutes with dr google and try to find some evidence instead of offering a somewhat embarrassingly flaccid opinion
Default0ptions wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 16:34
I’m really not sure Russia is losing here Mark. Are you? Perhaps you could share your statistics showing that?
Perhaps you could say just what Ukraine winning would be like and how we would all know Ukraine had won?
Russia is currently out producing the whole of NATO in ammunition for Ukraine (check that before you question it) and their economy is doing far better than ours since we sanctioned our own nose to spite our face
Take a few minutes with dr google and try to find some evidence instead of offering a somewhat embarrassingly flaccid opinion
No one wants to see your Mr Floppy on the table.
To date, Russia has clearly lost far more men and equipment than Ukraine....
OK, Russia had a lot more to start with, but due to their outdated methods, their military has been significantly weakened... https://www.voanews.com/a/russian-losse ... 17048.html
This war reminds me of WW1 - a 'meatgrinder' - OK Russia has been advancing a few yards recently...
But the US has just approved a whole load of Patriot missiles, so Ukraine will probably now claw them back again...
If you read what I wrote (rather than insulting me), you'll find that I wrote there'll be NO WINNERS in this, only losers....
Others have been banned from this forum for being persistently obnoxious...
I value reading the range of opinions on this board, so I hope that doesn't happen to you...
To date, Russia has clearly lost far more men and equipment than Ukraine....
OK, Russia had a lot more to start with, but due to their outdated methods, their military has been significantly weak
This war reminds me of WW1 - a 'meatgrinder' - OK Russia has been advancing a few yards recently...
But the US has just approved a whole load of Patriot missiles, so Ukraine will probably now claw them back again...
Russia has been advancing for over 6 months at this point, did you miss that? Russia still has far more men and equipment. Casualties are very much Up in the Air at this point. Why, for instance, is It Ukraine that is desperately trying to mobilise if they have low Casualty rates? Ukrainians don't currently seem that keen to sign Up for the 'meatgrinder' though. The picture won't be clear until much later
The fact that they are using 'outdated' tactics, According to you and the western media you presumably get most of your información from, Will be cold comfort to those Ukrainian soldiers being systemstically surrounded and bombed - on the ground right now.
Patriots might help the Ukrainians slow the Russian advance, not take any land back.
Mark wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 17:23
If you read what I wrote (rather than insulting me), you'll find that I wrote there'll be NO WINNERS in this, only losers....
Others have been banned from this forum for being persistently obnoxious...
I value reading the range of opinions on this board, so I hope that doesn't happen to you...
Again could you justify this, as Russia has clearly dealt a severe blow to the fading Western hegemony, and IS currently doing much better? Nato are obviously panicking and they don't seem Happy about what's happening - they look like the obvious losers in this.
invalid wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 18:38
Russia has been advancing for over 6 months at this point, did you miss that? Russia still has far more men and equipment. Casualties are very much Up in the Air at this point. Why, for instance, is It Ukraine that is desperately trying to mobilise if they have low Casualty rates? Ukrainians don't currently seem that keen to sign Up for the 'meatgrinder' though. The picture won't be clear until much later
The fact that they are using 'outdated' tactics, According to you and the western media you presumably get most of your información from, Will be cold comfort to those Ukrainian soldiers being systemstically surrounded and bombed - on the ground right now.
Patriots might help the Ukrainians slow the Russian advance, not take any land back.
What don't you understand ?
Both Russia and Ukraine are losing vast amounts on men and equipment - both are 'losers'...
Russia seem to have lost an awful lot more, but in the end does that really matter - neither will 'win'...
You might be safe, hiding behind your (Spanish ?) keyboard, but if you're so keen on it, why don't you go and sign up...??
Last edited by Mark on 28 Apr 2024, 20:27, edited 1 time in total.
invalid wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 18:42
Again could you justify this, as Russia has clearly dealt a severe blow to the fading Western hegemony, and IS currently doing much better? Nato are obviously panicking and they don't seem Happy about what's happening - they look like the obvious losers in this.
Yes, to repeat, Russia seems to have advanced a few yards, but at what cost ?
Remember, this was supposed to be a 'special operation', over in a few days....
NATO aren't involved in this conflict, so I can't see how they can be classed as 'losers'....??
If anything, they've gained x2 new members, one of which is directly on Russia's border...
If they were involved, the outcome would be very much different....
invalid wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 18:42
Again could you justify this, as Russia has clearly dealt a severe blow to the fading Western hegemony, and IS currently doing much better? Nato are obviously panicking and they don't seem Happy about what's happening - they look like the obvious losers in this.
Yes, to repeat, Russia seems to have advanced a few yards, but at what cost ?
Remember, this was supposed to be a 'special operation', over in a few days....
NATO aren't involved in this conflict, so I can't see how they can be classed as 'losers'....??
If anything, they've gained x2 new members, one of which is directly on Russia's border...
If they were involved, the outcome would be very much different....
Well Mark, unfortunately NATO is directly involved and only willful blindness could make anyone think otherwise.
“NATO steps up support for Ukraine, strengthens deterrence and defence”
