Syria watch...

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3rdRock

Post by 3rdRock »

biffvernon wrote:I've not always agreed with everything Simon Jenkins has written but he's spot on with this article.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... en-gesture
+1. George Galloway has just raised many of the same concerns in the HoC debate and I have to say that I wholeheartedly agree with him.
Respect MP George Galloway - who opposed the 2003 Iraq war and was expelled from the Labour Party over his outspoken comments on the war - says the public are saying a "million 'I told you so's'" across the country.

He says IS is "an imaginary army" with only 10,000 to 20,000 fighters - but it successfully holds the territory it does because it has the support of the population, made possible from past "Western occupation".

Labour MP Ian Austin intervenes in his speech to label his comments "a disgrace". But Mr Galloway insists the problem will not be solved by bombing - and predicts that extremism "will be made worse" by Western intervention.

Mr Galloway is repeatedly challenged by MPs to offer his solution - prompting Mr Galloway to say that those already fighting IS must be equipped with the weapons they need, including the Kurdish fighters. He also says Turkey and Saudi Arabia should be doing more.

"The last people that should be returning to the scene of their former crimes is Britain, France and the United States of America," the Bradford West MP concludes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-29362884
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

524 MPs voted to kill people 43 thought that a bad plan.
3rdRock

Post by 3rdRock »

Still, not to worry, eh.

We Brits love war and what's more, we're good at it. :wink:
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

Yes, look what happened the last time we used the Tornados.
Libya. Didn't it work well.
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Post by Tarrel »

He said we're good at war, not nation-building.

Predictable to see that, once the commons vote was passed, news coverage immediately started to focus on the detail of what aircraft will be used, where they will be launched from, etc. Almost like there's a hunger to be sated for information on "the act". Not too much discussion on the strategic intent and what comes after. (Apart from; "No boots on the ground" of course).
Engage in geo-engineering. Plant a tree today.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

George Galloway conveniently forgot to mention that IS holds much of the land that it does because it has murderously, ethnically cleansed it of Shia Moslems, Kurdish Moslems, Yazidis and Iraqi Christians and is selling those "kafir" women that they capture into slavery.

How do you negotiate with a group that has a declared aim of taking Sharia Law to the rest of the world? Violently if necessary. Ask them when they would like to take over and what they want us to do with the Christian priesthood and those who would wish to become martyrs rather than convert?
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
3rdRock

Post by 3rdRock »

kenneal - lagger wrote:George Galloway conveniently forgot to mention that IS holds much of the land that it does because it has murderously, ethnically cleansed it of Shia Moslems, Kurdish Moslems, Yazidis and Iraqi Christians and is selling those "kafir" women that they capture into slavery.

How do you negotiate with a group that has a declared aim of taking Sharia Law to the rest of the world? Violently if necessary. Ask them when they would like to take over and what they want us to do with the Christian priesthood and those who would wish to become martyrs rather than convert?
Ken, you obviously missed his speech.

He was actually one of the first to confirm that IS are little more than a murderous bunch of thugs. He merely pointed out that many of the Middle East states that oppose IS are incredibly well armed and that they should be the first to launch an attack on the IS forces in both Iraq and Syria.

Could their reluctance to act have something to do with the fact that a couple of those states are suspected of covertly funding the IS?
Little John

Post by Little John »

kenneal - lagger wrote:George Galloway conveniently forgot to mention that IS holds much of the land that it does because it has murderously, ethnically cleansed it of Shia Moslems, Kurdish Moslems, Yazidis and Iraqi Christians and is selling those "kafir" women that they capture into slavery.

How do you negotiate with a group that has a declared aim of taking Sharia Law to the rest of the world? Violently if necessary. Ask them when they would like to take over and what they want us to do with the Christian priesthood and those who would wish to become martyrs rather than convert?
Galloway did not forget to mention that. He was making the point that the areas they dominate are only dominated because the majority of the people there are not only scared of ISIS, they are also scared of and utterly detest the alternatives. Fish need water in which to swim and the water in which ISIS swim is a perceived injustice of the West's various policies towards the Muslim world; toward the Israel/Palestinian situation, towards the propping up of corrupt kings and puppet presidents of the Arab world, towards the whole issue of Iraq. This is the water in which these people swim. And, until this ocean of injustice and hatred is dried up ISIS, or groups like it, will continue to swim in and feed off it.

Galloway also did not suggest in any way that ISIS should be negotiated with. He made the point, as he has done so on every occasion has has publicly spoke on these matters, that he thinks we should negotiate with and support those people who have not joined such organisation YET.
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Post by biffvernon »

If the solution to the IS problem is bombs dropped from Tornados, then Saudi Arabia is the best equipped to carry out the task. They have 87 Tornados.

Our six Tornados looks like political posturing rather than practical military tactics.
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Post by 3rdRock »

Isis, we are told, is a 'clear and dangerous threat to our way of life'. I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy it

It’s absurd to suggest that we are fighting them ‘over there’ so that we won’t have to fight them ‘over here’.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 56325.html

Some more thoughts on the debate by Mary Dejevsky.
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Post by fuzzy »

It smells like the dodgy dossier for GWII all over again.
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Post by Mr. Fox »

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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

Another lot of good sense from Nafeez Ahmed:

http://ourpublic.org/story-war-foretold-fighting-isis/
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Post by biffvernon »

kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Perhaps we should all do our duty and avoid flying so that the bombers will be easier to find on the passenger list. Might also do the climate some good as well!!
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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