If you want to know what kind of hell our world has become

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 21 Dec 2014, 16:34

The Koran doesn't like depictions of the human form, does it? All Islamic art is abstract, at least. Beautiful, but abstract.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 15 Jan 2015, 13:17

I think Nigeria is in the market to become the next petro state that descends into failed state Islamic/Tribal feuding morass.

Boko Haram are running ISIS a close second on brutal depopulation strategy, the corrupt politicians couldn't care less and the nation's security forces are a joke.

A few years ago it was the southern tribes that were threatening collapse of oil production by constantly tapping from the oil pipelines, but now most production has moved offshore. The collapsing oil price will only accelerate the decline of the state, as the oil money is offshored to Switzerland, or remote Island havens.

I do not know for sure, but I strongly suspect that overpopulation and threat of starvation is the ultimate driving force behind this brutality, as it is in so many ethnic/tribal/religious wars.

Collapse, one nation or region at a time.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 16 Jan 2015, 06:00

PS_RalphW wrote:Collapse, one nation or region at a time.

How much Kalashnikov ammunition is there in the world? How long would it take to run out could be crucial to whether or not the world could descend into peace or anarchy.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 16 Jan 2015, 08:18

No chance of descending to peace then. (Anyway, the sad folk of sub-Saharan Africa seem to be able to kill each other on a grand scale without guns.)

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 16 Jan 2015, 22:39

kenneal - lagger wrote:
PS_RalphW wrote:Collapse, one nation or region at a time.
How much Kalashnikov ammunition is there in the world? How long would it take to run out could be crucial to whether or not the world could descend into peace or anarchy.

I would bet good money that there are far, far more AK47 rounds than there are people in the world.

The Yanks reportedly used 1.8 Billion rounds per year in Iraq and Afghanistan, which equates to 250,000 rounds per insurgent killed. That figure is incredible, US ammunition manufacturers struggled to keep up. In Vietnam they reportedly used 50,000 per enemy killed.

That gives you an idea of military stocks for just a couple of calibres, add in all the civilian calibres plus shotguns and there is probably enough ammunition to kill everyone on the planet 100 times over.

Strangely, the survivalists are learning how to make flint arrow heads.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 17 Jan 2015, 03:35

Catweazle wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:
PS_RalphW wrote:Collapse, one nation or region at a time.
How much Kalashnikov ammunition is there in the world? How long would it take to run out could be crucial to whether or not the world could descend into peace or anarchy.
I would bet good money that there are far, far more AK47 rounds than there are people in the world.

The Yanks reportedly used 1.8 Billion rounds per year in Iraq and Afghanistan, which equates to 250,000 rounds per insurgent killed. That figure is incredible, US ammunition manufacturers struggled to keep up. In Vietnam they reportedly used 50,000 per enemy killed.

That gives you an idea of military stocks for just a couple of calibres, add in all the civilian calibres plus shotguns and there is probably enough ammunition to kill everyone on the planet 100 times over.

Strangely, the survivalists are learning how to make flint arrow heads.

Seems silly to make them out of flint before you run out of scrap steel. The make something on the order of two and a half billion rounds of 22 long rifle annually. Many survival nuts have ten thousand rounds or more hoarded. I don't think we will run out any time soon.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 17 Jan 2015, 08:53

That's America for you. Every bullet manufactured for the purpose of killing a fellow human

(Ok, a tiny proportion of them might have had hunting for food in mind.)

AutomaticEarth · Post by **AutomaticEarth** » 17 Jan 2015, 10:43

And this is Saudi Arabia for you:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 82134.html

Charming place.....

Post by **adam2** » 17 Jan 2015, 11:36

I can see the merits of learning how to make flint arrow heads.
Although huge amounts of firearms rounds exist, and more are being manufactured, local shortages could easily occur and a bow and arrows whilst inferior to modern guns could still be most useful.

The reloading of spent cartridges involves a lot of pre made components, and of course presumes ready availability of suitable spent rounds.
The making of new ammunition from scratch requires considerable industrial infrastructure.

Flint arrow heads are tedious to make but low technology.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 17 Jan 2015, 12:29

adam2 wrote:I can see the merits of learning how to make flint arrow heads.
Although huge amounts of firearms rounds exist, and more are being manufactured, local shortages could easily occur and a bow and arrows whilst inferior to modern guns could still be most useful.

The reloading of spent cartridges involves a lot of pre made components, and of course presumes ready availability of suitable spent rounds.
The making of new ammunition from scratch requires considerable industrial infrastructure.

Flint arrow heads are tedious to make but low technology.

I might try to knap out a blade or projectile points just to experience it in a way the pleases my anthropological bent. I've seen it done once in Mexico and have one of the tourist souvenirs they were making. They were using obsidian which is a volcanic black glass that works easily and makes very sharp edges.
But for post peak arms it won't be necessary. Metals will be laying around and in old landfills in abundant supply and center fire ammo can be easily reloaded. What will come first will be a need to make your own gun powder but that is doable. Then the need to make your own primers. The metal cups are easy enough to make but the primer compound is dangerous to handle and the recipes are held close to save fools from blowing themselves up. You might forgo that and convert your muzzle loader back to flintlock which is where you might actually use a piece of flint. Bullets can be cast out of scrap lead and shot can be made by dropping molten lead through a sieve and down a shot tower into cold water.
If you do go to making your own arrows the shafts will be a harder part to make then the points, Modern compound bows and crossbows put too much stress on the shaft for ceder to do the job. Aluminum tubing of the right size and weight would be hard to come by and few know how to make anything out of carbon fiber. Getting the right material then getting it straight and balanced will take a lot of work. It is a good thing we won't be reduced to using a stump for a work bench and a rock for a hammer.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 17 Jan 2015, 13:26

Sorry to continue off-topic, but flint arrow heads ? Isn't there something more useful to learn ? Like how to grow potatoes ? If you really need an arrow head use an old nail, there are millions of them around and they won't shatter when you ( inevitably ) miss your target.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 17 Jan 2015, 14:48

Catweazle wrote:Sorry to continue off-topic, but flint arrow heads ? Isn't there something more useful to learn ? Like how to grow potatoes ? If you really need an arrow head use an old nail, there are millions of them around and they won't shatter when you ( inevitably ) miss your target.

I've already done the potatoes and the chickens. Need to get wheat all the way to bread but I think I have time for that later.
Just ruminating a bit while the soldier beans bake.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 18 Jan 2015, 11:30

Besides, arrows are moving backwards. The technology you need was so good, it was illegal for the peasants - the crossbow.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 18 Jan 2015, 14:10

fuzzy wrote:Besides, arrows are moving backwards. The technology you need was so good, it was illegal for the peasants - the crossbow.

I don't have a crossbow as of the moment. There isn't a hunting season for them in Vermont except for handicapped hunters that can no longer hold a regular or compound bow at full draw. I do have a couple of compound bows but haven't used them much in years. Just sitting on the shelf waiting for the need to arise.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 18 Jan 2015, 14:43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENj50aY_ggw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd8K8hmmebE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Zx4I_O61M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3Mb8eJncoI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHHKtIWzG88

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObuKwpl12V4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcLFbHVMqos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlvZltsEGRw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsTtaCFU_hg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wezq1mKrTs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBtddojMdnA