Iran and the West

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Mr. Fox
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Post by Mr. Fox »

Big 'if'.

Good article from Matt Taibbi:
Virtually all of the Iran stories of late have contained some version of this sort of rhetorical sophistry. The news “hook” in most all of these stories is that intelligence reports reveal Iran is “willing” to attack us or go to war – but then there’s usually an asterisk next to the headline, and when you follow the asterisk, it reads something like, “In the event that we attack Iran first.”

An NBC report Greenwald also wrote about put it this way: “Within just the past few days, Iranian leaders have threatened that if attacked, they would launch those missiles at U.S. targets.”

There’s a weird set of internalized assumptions that media members bring to stories like this Iran business. In fact there’s an elaborate belief system we press people adhere to, about how a foreign country may behave toward the U.S., and how it may not behave. It reminds me a little of a passage in Anna Karenina about the belief system of noblemen in Tolstoy’s day:
Vronsky’s life was particularly happy in that he had a code of principles, which defined with unfailing certitude what he ought and what he ought not to do… These principles laid down as invisible rules: that one must pay a cardsharper, but need not pay a tailor; that one must never lie to a man, but one may lie to a woman; that one must never cheat anyone, but one may a husband; that one must never pardon an insult, but one may give one, and so on.
We have a similar gentleman’s code, a “Westernized industrial power” code if you will, that operates the same way. In other words, our newspapers and TV stations may blather on a thousand times a day about attacking Iran and bombing its people, but if even one Iranian talks about fighting back, he is being “aggressive” and “threatening”; we can impose sanctions on anyone, but if the sanctioned country embargoes oil shipments to Europe in response, it’s being “belligerent,” and so on.

I’m not defending Ahmadinejad, I think he’s nuts and a monstrous dick and I definitely don’t think he should be allowed to have nuclear weapons, but to me this issue has little to do with Iran at all. What’s more troubling to me is that we’ve internalized this “gentleman’s code” to the point where its basic premises are no longer even debated.

Once upon a time, way back in the stone ages, when Noam Chomsky was first writing about these propaganda techniques in Manufacturing Consent, our leaders felt the need to conceal – or at least sugar-coat – these Orwellian principles. It was assumed that the American people genuinely needed to feel like they were on the right side of things, and so the foreign powers we clashed with were always depicted as being the instigators and aggressors, while our role in provoking those responses was always disguised or at least played down.

But now the public openly embraces circular thinking like, “Any country that squawks when we threaten to bomb it is a threat that needs to be wiped out.” Maybe I’m mistaken, but I have to believe that there was a time when ideas like that sounded weird to the American ear. Now they seem to make sense to almost everyone here at home, and that to me is just as a scary as Ahmadinejad.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... r-20120217
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Mr. Fox
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Post by Mr. Fox »

And one from Seymour Hersh (last year):
Is Iran actively trying to develop nuclear weapons? Members of the Obama Administration often talk as if this were a foregone conclusion, as did their predecessors under George W. Bush. There is a large body of evidence, however, including some of America’s most highly classified intelligence assessments, suggesting that the United States could be in danger of repeating a mistake similar to the one made with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq eight years ago––allowing anxieties about the policies of a tyrannical regime to distort our estimations of the state’s military capacities and intentions. The two most recent National Intelligence Estimates (N.I.E.s) on Iranian nuclear progress, representing the best judgment of the senior officers from all the major American intelligence agencies, have stated that there is no conclusive evidence that Iran has made any effort to build the bomb since 2003.

Despite years of covert operations inside Iran, extensive satellite imagery, and the recruitment of many Iranian intelligence assets, the United States and its allies, including Israel, have been unable to find irrefutable evidence of an ongoing hidden nuclear-weapons program in Iran, according to intelligence and diplomatic officials here and abroad...
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011 ... fact_hersh
gug
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Post by gug »

I've probably missed the boat here, but the oft misquoted speech by Ahmadinejad was actually him quoting Khomeini....

So, not only was the translation misreported, he was actually quoting someone else in his actual speech. But again, lets not let the facts get in the way of the demonisation.


The other thing is that the US and Israel have been wringing their hands over the thought of a nuclear armed Iran for almost 20 years now. This is nothing new.
Maybe if they didnt spend so much of their time trying to F--k over that part of the world they wouldn't have to worry so much.
Frankly given the west's history of interference in that part of the world, I wouldn't be surprised if Iran tried to get a nuke as soon as possible.
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DominicJ
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Post by DominicJ »

gug wrote:I've probably missed the boat here, but the oft misquoted speech by Ahmadinejad was actually him quoting Khomeini....

So, not only was the translation misreported, he was actually quoting someone else in his actual speech. But again, lets not let the facts get in the way of the demonisation.
So why did IRIB repeat "Wipe Israel off the Map" as its headline, and leave it there, for over a year?
I'm a realist, not a hippie
gug
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Post by gug »

DominicJ wrote:
gug wrote:I've probably missed the boat here, but the oft misquoted speech by Ahmadinejad was actually him quoting Khomeini....

So, not only was the translation misreported, he was actually quoting someone else in his actual speech. But again, lets not let the facts get in the way of the demonisation.
So why did IRIB repeat "Wipe Israel off the Map" as its headline, and leave it there, for over a year?
How would i know, i'm just telling you what the translation was.
Go do your own research.
Aurora

Post by Aurora »

The Guardian - 29/07/12

Mitt Romney would support Israeli military strike against Iran, says aide

US presidential candidate to say in speech in Israel that stopping Iran's nuclear arms capability must be 'highest priority'.

Article continues ...
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biffvernon
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Post by biffvernon »

Whatever one thinks of Obama, if Mitt Romney becomes president then the world is in serious trouble.
JavaScriptDonkey
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Post by JavaScriptDonkey »

Perhaps we should clarify...

Mitt Romney, in a desperate attempt to gather swing voters to him, tried to appear to back Israeli aggression without actually committing himself to anything specific.

He's a politician and will, by his very nature, lie.
snow hope
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Post by snow hope »

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:Perhaps we should clarify...

Mitt Romney, in a desperate attempt to gather swing voters to him, tried to appear to back Israeli aggression without actually committing himself to anything specific.

He's a politician and will, by his very nature, lie.
Can't disagree much with that bit of analysis........ for sure. :roll:
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