French protests over fuel prices etc.

[emordnilap]

Agreed, LJ.

At a very simplistic level, such protests are naive.

[Little John]

But necessary as part of what it is going to take to get us to the psychological point of recognition of the problems that face us I think.

Or, perhaps, just inevitable.

[adam2]

The protests are worsening with six buildings and numerous cars burnt yesterday.
A state of emergency may be declared, according to news reports.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46417991

[Lord Beria3]

These protests have been very interesting in France. A cry of rage from the economically "left behind", similar to the Brexit vote I would argue.

Eurointelligence have a good briefing on the protests...

https://www.eurointelligence.com/public.html

Protest movements have a long tradition in France, going all the way back to the French Revolution. Street protests have deeply shaped the politics of the 5th Republic. Revolution was the title Emmanuel Macron chose for his book when he was campaigning for the presidency. What he certainly did not have in mind was a grassroots protest movement like the gilets jaunes directed against himself.

The current protest movement is like none of its predecessors. it has mobilised people from across France, many of whom protest for the first time in their lives. Many are non-voters. They are not experienced, but they are fast learners, writes Cécile Cornudet. Their momentum is as unpredictable as can be, with a list of demands growing by the day. There is no clear organisational structure, no rulebook for interactions with the government.

The government has basically made the bet that the movement will eventually run out of steam or at least lose public support. But, despite the images of burning barricades on the Champs-Élysées last weekend and Macron's speech on Tuesday, the movement still has a strong public backing with the latest polls suggesting between 75% and 85% support. As the numbers of protesters have dropped, public support has surged. Most of it comes from the middle working classes. But leading intellectuals have swung behind the movement as well.

This protest is no longer about the carbon tax alone. It is now a protest against Macron. Much of the population has lost faith in him and his project to transform the country. He is widely seen as ignorant or even contemptuous of the plight of the less well-off. Pent-up rage against him and against the whole political class is coming out. The sociologist Stéphane Rozès compares the movement with the big protests back 1995 that forced Alain Juppé, then prime minister, out of office. Despite the focus on fiscal and social demands, it is a political movement after all.

How will Macron respond to the next wave of protests? Can the authorities prevent the protesters from coming to the Champs-Élysées tomorrow? This is not clear. Other organisations are joining in. Trade unions, anti-racist organisations and students all announced they would come to protest in Paris tomorrow. The government hopes that the movement will run out of steam over Christmas at the latest. But the underlying anger will be there to stay.

[Lord Beria3]

Interestingly, Greer on his blog posits the view that these riots could be a "regime-change" operation by an unknown foreign state hostile to Macron and his government.

I remain open minded, although there are some parallels with the Arab Spring.

Could covert operatives be playing a hand in the riots, orchestrating the protests against the government? Maybe.

[Lord Beria3]

...the courtier whispers, “Mr President, the people cannot afford diesel.� To which the cloth-eared Macron has, in effect replied: “Let them buy Teslas.�

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/e ... ning_Blend

Superb!

As one shop window was smashed near the Champs Elysée, there were repeated cries of Allahu Akbar.

Ummm... if the angry Muslim underclass join the revolt, you could see full scale anarchy across France and a state of emergency.

Macron needs to be very careful!

[raspberry-blower]

In very much the same vein:

Guy Milliere: France's meltdown, Macron's disdain

In a little more than a year, Macron, elected in May 2017, has lost almost all credit and legitimacy. He is also one of the last European leaders in power who supports the European Union as it is.

Macron, who claimed that he would defeat the "populist" wave rising throughout the continent, has also claimed that leaders who listened to people eager to defend their way of life were "leprosy" and "bad winds".

The "populist" wave is now hitting France; it could well mean the end of Macron's term as president.

There are quite a few commentators who think that Macron won't last his full term

It will be interesting to see how the European Union reacts to all this in the long term.

[adam2]

It looks as though the mob has won.
The French government have "suspended" the increase in fuel duty, various media report.

Regrettable in my view on at least two counts firstly a lower fuel price encourages greater use, when less use should be encouraged.
It also sends out a powerful message that violence DOES work.

[emordnilap]

It looks as though the mob has won.
The French government have "suspended" the increase in fuel duty, various media report.

Regrettable in my view on at least two counts firstly a lower fuel price encourages greater use, when less use should be encouraged.
It also sends out a powerful message that violence DOES work.

Precisely adam2, although I see no problem with people protesting about austerity, which is part of the French grievances. In fact, why don't more people protest?

Violence usually erupts when you bring in the militia.

[Little John]

Of course violence works Adam, Why do you think the police and army use violence?

[emordnilap]

Of course violence works Adam, Why do you think the police and army use violence?

Exactly. Riots, injuries and damage can and does occur during peaceful protests - but it's guaranteed when they start tear-gassing and water-cannoning.

[adam2]

Of course violence works Adam, Why do you think the police and army use violence?

I know, but the mantra of both TPTB and of "nice middle class people" is that violence does not work.

Violence is what wins wars.
Violence deters burglars more effectively than a nice cup of tea.

[fuzzy]

Sedition in the UK is very impractical. I think the snoops have been in every passionate group since Peterloo. It didn't take Churchill long to stamp on the Glaswegians in 1919

[vtsnowedin]

Riots aside for a moment does anybody think any driver in France can do anything to conserve fuel that they are not already doing at €1.50/L-$6.45 a US gallon ? What could pushing it up past $7.00 really accomplish except impoverish the man that drives as a part of his living?

[adam2]

UK fuel prices are broadly similar to those in France.
Many UK drivers could save fuel by more sensible driving, for example by coasting towards red lights and stop signs, rather braking hard at the last moment.
More fuel could be saved by driving at more modest speeds, 80MPH is common on motorways, despite being illegal and wasting fuel.

I presume that circumstances are similar in France.