Labour Party/government Watch

[johnhemming2]

I did point out to you previously that the shareholders in the banks stopped getting dividends and were either wiped out or got a heavy cut in the value of their shares.

They should have been wiped out COMPLETELY. Why were there any private shareholders left AT ALL?


LIAR. You're a great big ******* liar, John Hemming.

So what happened to the shareholders in Northern Rock and Bradford and Bingley then?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... ction.html
"Investor group says Labour 'betrayed' ordinary people by allowing Rock shareholders to be wiped out"

[UndercoverElephant]

So what happened to the shareholders in Northern Rock and Bradford and Bingley then?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... ction.html
"Investor group says Labour 'betrayed' ordinary people by allowing Rock shareholders to be wiped out"

Telegraph readers aren't ordinary people. They are worthless crap that deserve to go to hell.

[UndercoverElephant]

Do stop patronising me. I'm not stupid, Mr Hemming, and neither am I ignorant.

Firing all the employees of the banks was not one of the best policy suggestions, however.

I didn't say anything about "firing". People are "fired" if they do their jobs wrong, but the companies that employee them keep going.

I said the banks should have been allowed to go bust. If the company that employs you goes bust, you have not been "fired."

We could talk about other definitions of being fired...

[johnhemming2]

I didn't say anything about "firing". People are "fired" if they do their jobs wrong, but the companies that employee them keep going.

You referred to the "total loss of all ... employees" people losing their jobs. Actually what happens is that an administrator sacks them or fires them.

Telegraph readers aren't ordinary people. They are worthless crap that deserve to go to hell.

That is an obviously stupid statement in many ways more stupid than the statement that employees losing their jobs through insolvency are not fired. However, just to make you happier here is the same story in "The Guardian"

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... tion-claim
The money was something he had been keeping for his retirement but it has all been lost,

[UndercoverElephant]

I didn't say anything about "firing". People are "fired" if they do their jobs wrong, but the companies that employee them keep going.

You referred to the "total loss of all ... employees" people losing their jobs. Actually what happens is that an administrator sacks them or fires them.

You are quibbling about words for no good reason.

If you work for a private company, and it goes bust, then you do should not expect the state to bail the company out so you can keep your job.

[johnhemming2]

I didn't say anything about "firing". People are "fired" if they do their jobs wrong, but the companies that employee them keep going.

You referred to the "total loss of all ... employees" people losing their jobs. Actually what happens is that an administrator sacks them or fires them.

You are quibbling about words for no good reason.

If you work for a private company, and it goes bust, then you do should not expect the state to bail the company out so you can keep your job.

I am making the simple point that had everyone been fired it would have been really difficult for anyone to get any money out of the banks as there would have been no branches open, no computers running, no-one filling up the cashpoints, no cheques processed etc etc.

As I have said earlier I speak English and there are defined meanings to words that one really should expect to use. If you wish to speak another language that is your choice.

[Little John]

You referred to the "total loss of all ... employees" people losing their jobs. Actually what happens is that an administrator sacks them or fires them.

You are quibbling about words for no good reason.

If you work for a private company, and it goes bust, then you do should not expect the state to bail the company out so you can keep your job.

I am making the simple point that had everyone been fired it would have been really difficult for anyone to get any money out of the banks as there would have been no branches open, no computers running, no-one filling up the cashpoints, no cheques processed etc etc.

As I have said earlier I speak English and there are defined meanings to words that one really should expect to use. If you wish to speak another language that is your choice.

Yes, there are definite meanings to words. If a company goes bust, it employees are not fired, they are made redundant, you have deliberately and dishonestly used the word "fired" because you know it is more emotive. Now, at this point, I fully expect you to come out with some shit along the lines of it makes little difference to the employees what word is used to describe them losing their jobs. Which is, of course, true enough. But that is not why you will take such a tack.

The reason you will take it is because you are a disingenuous, lying, bullshitting (ex) politician who cannot let the disingenuous, lying, bullshitting habits of a political lifetime go

[johnhemming2]

Google's definition of "fired".

informal
dismiss (an employee) from a job.
"I had to fire men who've been with me for years"
synonyms: dismiss, discharge, give someone their notice, make redundant, lay off, let go, throw out, get rid of, oust, depose; More

As I have said earlier I speak English and there are defined meanings to words that one really should expect to use. If you wish to speak another language that is your choice.

Yes, there are definite meanings to words. If a company goes bust, it employees are not fired, they are made redundant, you have deliberately and dishonestly used the word "fired" because you know it is more emotive. Now, at this point, I fully expect you to come out with some shit along the lines of it makes little difference to the employees what word is used to describe them losing their jobs. Which is, of course, true enough. But that is not why you will take such a tack.

The reason you will take it is because you are a disingenuous, lying, bullshitting (ex) politician who cannot let the disingenuous, lying, bullshitting habits of a political lifetime go

So everyone else in the universe is

disingenuous, lying, bullshitting

I suggest you learn the meaning of words in the English Language. It would help in terms of developing an ability to debate rationally.

[Little John]

In the UK, there is an explicit and legal distinction between the two as well you know. Irrespective of the fact of being simply factually wrong in this fine linguistic distinction, the very fact of your wishing to quibble of the meanings of words in order to avoid a substantive debate you know has already been lost by people like you amongst the vast majority of ordinary citizens both here and abroad, provides everybody else who may read this thread all they need to know about the legitimacy of the bullshit the spews from your mind to your keyboard Mr Hemming.

[johnhemming2]

In the UK, there is an explicit and legal distinction between the two as well you know. Irrespective of the fact of being simply factually wrong in this fine linguistic distinction, the very fact of your wishing to quibble of the meanings of words in order to avoid a substantive debate you know has already been lost by people like you amongst the vast majority of ordinary citizens both here and abroad, provides everybody else who may read this thread all they need to know about the legitimacy of the bullshit the spews from your mind to your keyboard Mr Hemming.

What is the evidence for your claim?

informal Dismiss (an employee) from a job:
I had to fire men who’ve been with me for years
you’re fired!
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
SYNONYMS
dismiss, discharge, give someone their notice, make redundant, lay off, let go, throw out, get rid of, oust, depose;
Military cashier
informal sack, give the sack to, axe, kick out, boot out, give someone the boot, give someone the bullet, give someone the (old) heave-ho, give someone the elbow, give someone the push, give someone their marching orders, show someone the door
British informal give someone their cards
View synonyms

I have evidence for my arguments. You have no evidence for your arguments.

It seems clear, therefore, that I am right and you are wrong.

[raspberry-blower]

The financial crisis was kicked off by the peak in conventional oil production causing an energy price spike.

What ACTUAL EVIDENCE do you have that backs up this highly questionable statement?
Having worked in Investment banking up to 2005 there I find this statement to be lacking in any credibility. It seems to me that you are using the Peak Oil card as an excuse to blind yourself from the reality of what was actually going on in the banking sector.

What was far more relevant to the banking crisis was the fact that Risk management went entirely out of the window. Remember the liar loans? Any old numpty could get a mortgage with absolutely ZERO checks being made on the suitability of said person to ever repay it back. There were 0% interest rate mortgages, 125% of property value mortgages, along with PPI that didn't actually insure you when you read the small print carefully.
Why were bank staff so keen to flog this worthless crap on the general public?
Because bank staffs' wages, in real terms were being restrained; there were, however, targets to sell such crap resulted in them achieving bonuses on a regular basis.

Secondly, over valued properly more generally and over borrowed mortgages which chewed into back capital buffers.

Which is precisely what happened to the likes of Northern Rock. Except that they didn't have adequate/any capital buffers that could save them. What has happened in the interim is that there is the Basel agreement and meaningless stress tests. The potential for another systemic banking failure is very real - the wholesale changes needed to reform the banking sector have not even been thought about.

[PS_RalphW]

A whole page of comments without once mentioning the theme of the thread.

Anyway,

I've just had a thought. Assuming the leadership election is not 'delayed' or otherwise knobbled, JC is going to be elected leader.

With China entering economic desperate measures to avoid its own financial implosion, it seems very likely that UK will see major recession just as the renewed austerity bites deep into the 99%'s pockets. This is going to make a lot of Tory voters very unhappy.

The next election could be a straight race between Corbyn and Farage.

As peak oil will be under full steam by then, neither leader is likely to turn the economy around.

The one after that between extreme left and extreme right? As in Germany in the 1930s?

[johnhemming2]

The financial crisis was kicked off by the peak in conventional oil production causing an energy price spike.

What ACTUAL EVIDENCE do you have that backs up this highly questionable statement?

http://www.voxeu.org/article/did-rising ... -recession

Recessions tend to follow oil price spikes. I think that is generally accepted, but I can find more sources than the above if needs be.

If you read the whole of my post you will find a lot of it agrees with what you are saying. At some stage the whole thing was going to have problems, but the thing that removed the bottom card from the house of cards was a spike in the price of oil.

[johnhemming2]

With China entering economic desperate measures to avoid its own financial implosion, it seems very likely that UK will see major recession just as the renewed austerity bites deep into the 99%'s pockets. This is going to make a lot of Tory voters very unhappy.

My own view is that the reduction in oil prices will result in an acceleration in the growth of economic activity notwithstanding what happens in China. (China has a problem yes).

[johnhemming2]

The potential for another systemic banking failure is very real - the wholesale changes needed to reform the banking sector have not even been thought about.

Which asks the question as to what changes you would suggest.