Jihad Watch

[johnhemming2]

It is worth waiting a bit before stating what the authorities think an event is. Clearly there are atrocities that are caused by Daesh with logistics support, there are atrocities that are caused by people who are doing it because of the Daesh agenda and don't have logistics support. Additionally there are situations where people who are mentally ill kill others many may claim to do it because they are Muslim. Additionally there are events which are not linked to the Daesh type agenda.

There is nothing to be gained from coming to a premature conclusion as to where the responsibility for an event lies.

It remains that the world needs to get rid of Daesh.

[UndercoverElephant]

It remains that the world needs to get rid of Islam in its current state, of which Daesh is unfortunately just an extreme example.

If Daesh is the Dogo Argentino. mainstream Islam is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. The world would be a better place not just without the one, but without the other too.

[offtopic]
(My 18 week old labradoodle was attacked by a SBT and nearly lost a leg last week. Same emergency vet dealt with another incident the same night - SBT nearly killed a king charles spaniel. They are dangerous and should not have been exempted from the dangerous dogs act, IMO.)
[/offtopic]

[woodburner]

Hitler (and others) thought the world would be a better place without Jews. Are you suggesting a similar approach?

Dogs - it is the owners who need putting down in most cases. The dogs have not been trained and socialised, (similarly their irrisponsible and moronic owners).

[johnhemming2]

It remains that the world needs to get rid of Islam in its current state, of which Daesh is unfortunately just an extreme example.

To me the enemy is those people who are driven by a desire for revenge so strong that they kill innocent people not all Muslims.

In Birmingham the worst terrorist attack was by Irish Catholics. That does not make all Christians the enemy (or even Irish Catholics).

[fuzzy]

The dog problem and the stray cat problem could be easily reduced by politicians who had a grasp of real society issues and actually gave a toss. No animals for sale, except for registered re-homing shelters recycling strays/lost. Without money, moron pedigree selection would lose supply. If you think animal welfare is bad now, just wait till the money is really tight. Then again, after ~100 years those useless London pricks can't even decree which side is indicators and which is wipers.

[Little John]

Hitler (and others) thought the world would be a better place without Jews. Are you suggesting a similar approach?

Dogs - it is the owners who need putting down in most cases. The dogs have not been trained and socialised, (similarly their irresponsible and moronic owners).

Zionism is an idea. Jews are people. Islam is an idea. Muslims are people. There is a difference. You do understand that, right?

[Little John]

It remains that the world needs to get rid of Islam in its current state, of which Daesh is unfortunately just an extreme example.

To me the enemy is those people who are driven by a desire for revenge so strong that they kill innocent people not all Muslims.

In Birmingham the worst terrorist attack was by Irish Catholics. That does not make all Christians the enemy (or even Irish Catholics).

No. But it does and has made Christianity the enemy at certain points in our history. But, the Reformation and subsequent Enlightenment largely put Christianity in its box where it has, more or less, remained to this day. Islam has not undergone this historical taming process.

Which is why it is so dangerous.

[johnhemming2]

The pub bombings were in the 1970s.

[Little John]

The pub bombings were in the 1970s.

Yes, of course, I am not suggesting all is light and love in the Christian world. far from it. However, there was arguably a far more pronounced tribal/socioeconomic driver to the problems in Northern Ireland than there is with global Islam. In other words, the catholicism of the IRA was as much a cultural correlate as it was a driver. If it had not been their Catholicism that they rallied around, it would have been their nationalism. However, even fully taking into account and accepting the religious element driving the troubles in Northern Ireland, it is bad enough keeping the devil we know in check without needing to take on someone else's. Nothing in what you have just posted in any way serves as a mitigation for radical Islam, so I am at a loss as to your reasons for posting it.

[johnhemming2]

However, there was arguably a far more pronounced tribal/socioeconomic driver to the problems in Northern Ireland than there is with global Islam.

If that is arguable then you need to provide some justification or evidence. In my view much of this particular asymmetric conflict is primarily tribal, but a tribe of associations. It attracts violent people. Anecdotally many of the people involved in kidnapping etc were doing other sorts of violent crimes previously.

There are tribal assaults on all sides. We had a Ukrainian in Birmingham who killed an old man merely because he was a Muslim. The attack in Munich has similarities, but we don't know enough yet.

Until relatively recently the Tamil Tigers had the pole position in terms of numbers of suicide attacks and they don't come close to being described as Muslims by anyone.

My thesis is that this is primarily an emotional conflict driven by a desire for revenge. All conflicts have an emotional element, Asymmetric conflicts tend to be primarily emotional rather than strategic.

[Little John]

However, there was arguably a far more pronounced tribal/socioeconomic driver to the problems in Northern Ireland than there is with global Islam.

If that is arguable then you need to provide some justification or evidence. In my view much of this particular asymmetric conflict is primarily tribal, but a tribe of associations. It attracts violent people. Anecdotally many of the people involved in kidnapping etc were doing other sorts of violent crimes previously.

There are tribal assaults on all sides. We had a Ukrainian in Birmingham who killed an old man merely because he was a Muslim. The attack in Munich has similarities, but we don't know enough yet.

Until relatively recently the Tamil Tigers had the pole position in terms of numbers of suicide attacks and they don't come close to being described as Muslims by anyone.

My thesis is that this is primarily an emotional conflict driven by a desire for revenge. All conflicts have an emotional element, Asymmetric conflicts tend to be primarily emotional rather than strategic.

So, given that I have also stated that even if we accept that religion was and is the main driver behind the troubles in Northern Ireland, which implies that the driver is structurally the same as that driving the troubles surrounding radical Islam, why would anyone think it is a good idea to import yet more of the same shit from an entirely different culture? You have yet to answer this.

Furthermore, your point about the emotional element to asymmetric conflicts is putting the cart before the horse. Sure enough, the weaker side in an asymmetric conflict will tend to be more "emotional". But that is because being emotional is an efficient psychological motivator when the odds are stacked against an organism. It's why animals get aggressive and "emotional" when pressed. In other words, it is an effect, not a cause.

[UndercoverElephant]

Hitler (and others) thought the world would be a better place without Jews. Are you suggesting a similar approach?

Not extermination of people, no. I've previously said in this thread what sort of steps I think should be taken to help provoke major reform of Islam.

Dogs - it is the owners who need putting down in most cases. The dogs have not been trained and socialised, (similarly their irrisponsible and moronic owners).

It is both. Training and owner behaviour are clearly a factor. But nobody would be silly enough to claim that collies weren't bred to be instinctive herders, huskies to be able to run all day, greyhounds to chase down small prey animals in quick bursts, and retrievers to retrieve dead game birds without damaging them. Bull Terriers were bred to fight other dogs. It is not a co-incidence that they are responsible for the majority of attacks on children and other dogs.

[UndercoverElephant]

I don't think it is helpful to draw comparisons with the situation in Ireland. Yes, religion was a factor, but it wasn't religion that drove the English to mis-rule Ireland during the Great Potato Famine. The Irish situation has at least as much to do with secular nationalism and the desire for self-determination and self-government in an entirely non-religious sense as it has to do with the battle between catholicism and protestantism.

[Little John]

I don't think it is helpful to draw comparisons with the situation in Ireland. Yes, religion was a factor, but it wasn't religion that drove the English to mis-rule Ireland during the Great Potato Famine. The Irish situation has at least as much to do with secular nationalism and the desire for self-determination and self-government in an entirely non-religious sense as it has to do with the battle between catholicism and protestantism.

Precisely

[UndercoverElephant]

Here we go again

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36892785

A priest has been killed in an attack by two armed men at his church near Rouen in northern France, police and French media have said.

The armed men entered the church in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray during mass, taking the priest, two nuns and several churchgoers hostage, reports said.

French TV said shots had been heard after police arrived at the scene. Both hostage-takers are now dead.

Anyone want to bet whether or not there is an Islamic connection?

This is a war.