flood watch

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 22 Dec 2013, 14:09

peaceful_life wrote:Diversity in those numbers.

Is there a whole thought there?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 22 Dec 2013, 22:44

I see it's Flood Watch time in York again.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 23 Dec 2013, 01:46

Are the Indian farmers the ones who are committing suicide in droves or are they just the ones who have been conned into using Monsatan's gear, finding that it doesn't work and that they can't afford it, going broke and doing themselves in with the shame of it?

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 23 Dec 2013, 01:50

biffvernon wrote:I see it's Flood Watch time in York again.

Getting back on piste, so to speak!

They're predicting flooding in the south as well tomorrow to go with the gales.

Our grandchildren's trampoline did a somersault in the gales a few nights ago and has bent the poles holding the safety net. If we don't get any more damage than that we will be happy.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 23 Dec 2013, 10:13

kenneal - lagger wrote:Are the Indian farmers the ones who are committing suicide in droves or are they just the ones who have been conned into using Monsatan's gear, finding that it doesn't work and that they can't afford it, going broke and doing themselves in with the shame of it?

Or are they the ones that are standing there with a shovel watching their neighbor drive by on his new tractor with the prettiest girl in the village riding on the fender seat with a big smile on her face.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 23 Dec 2013, 13:53

No! They are the ones who have modernised using GM crops and tractors. It's more the fault of the GM crops not producing a yield increase commensurate with the cost increase but the tractors cost doesn't help either.

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 23 Dec 2013, 14:18

vtsnowedin wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:Are the Indian farmers the ones who are committing suicide in droves or are they just the ones who have been conned into using Monsatan's gear, finding that it doesn't work and that they can't afford it, going broke and doing themselves in with the shame of it?
Or are they the ones that are standing there with a shovel watching their neighbor drive by on his new tractor with the prettiest girl in the village riding on the fender seat with a big smile on her face.

Sounds almost idyllic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2OJPFSZ4OE

The fact remains though, we don't need industrial agriculture.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 23 Dec 2013, 16:39

A good video spoilt by the belligerent behaviour of the interviewer. Does she post on PS

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 23 Dec 2013, 17:34

woodburner wrote:A good video spoilt by the belligerent behaviour of the interviewer. Does she post on PS

It's a common tactic to 'spike the dynamic' of conversation within interviews to encourage spontaneous reaction, but on this, yes, she went beyond the pale, failed miserably and merely ascended Vandana's superiority whilst leaving herself with the egg of ad hominem, repetition and ignorance, on her face.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 23 Dec 2013, 17:53

Vandana's position is one I support wholeheartedly. Monocultures can give the delusion of an increased yield which can be claimed to be due to some irrelevant factor (BT) while ignoring the fact that monocultures are unsustainable in the long term, and no good for health, even in the short term. Look at the obesity rates in the west for evidence.

Vandana said bigger yields are all very well, but when the result isn't nutrition, where's the benefit? I've pointed out previously that currently 40% of the UK rape crop is used for bio-diesel, and an area the size of Yorkshire is used to grow wheat used to produce bio-ethanol. All grown with fossil fuel derived fertilisers, and rape is a very hungry crop.

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 23 Dec 2013, 18:33

woodburner wrote:Vandana's position is one I support wholeheartedly. Monocultures can give the delusion of an increased yield which can be claimed to be due to some irrelevant factor (BT) while ignoring the fact that monocultures are unsustainable in the long term, and no good for health, even in the short term. Look at the obesity rates in the west for evidence.

Vandana said bigger yields are all very well, but when the result isn't nutrition, where's the benefit? I've pointed out previously that currently 40% of the UK rape crop is used for bio-diesel, and an area the size of Yorkshire is used to grow wheat used to produce bio-ethanol. All grown with fossil fuel derived fertilisers, and rape is a very hungry crop.

I was impartial to the whole agricultural issue, but then...once we take everything into account, it's a complete no brainer, modern practice is nothing but destruction.
The monoculture method replicates nothing in nature, it needs constantly fed and subsidised with both energy and economic (ok one and the same) inputs, strips the integrity and destabalizes the soil, which exacerbates erosion and flooding etc etc etc, has no diversity or resilience and is the cause of untold 'externalities' that aren't accounted for in the illusion of bogof. In short, it simply doesn't work.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 23 Dec 2013, 18:50

One of the worst things is also courtesy of Monsanto and that's glyphosate. It damages soil bacteria and chelates nutrients in the soil making them unavailable to plants. These nutrients are boron, magnesium, copper, selenium, manganese etc. Not being available to plants means they are not available in food, and leads to malnutrition. It is possible to see fields having been sprayed with glyphosate, they are the ones that are going yellow now.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 23 Dec 2013, 19:09

I had no idea about the chelation bit. Where can it be read about?..

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 23 Dec 2013, 19:13

Type "roundup chelation" into google (I use startpage) and be prepared for weeks of reading

peaceful_life · Post by **peaceful_life** » 23 Dec 2013, 19:18

woodburner wrote:One of the worst things is also courtesy of Monsanto and that's glyphosate. It damages soil bacteria and chelates nutrients in the soil making them unavailable to plants. These nutrients are boron, magnesium, copper, selenium, manganese etc. Not being available to plants means they are not available in food, and leads to malnutrition. It is possible to see fields having been sprayed with glyphosate, they are the ones that are going yellow now.

That's just one thing to add to the endless list, as I'm sure you're aware.

If you wana know what's going on in there, this is a cracking little book, but get the revised edition.
http://teamingwithmicrobes.com/home/