Snail wrote:I'm not even sure id call saddam a monster.
Somebody who used chemical weapons on his own people....
Somebody who started the Iran-Iraq war (over 1million dead)......
Someone who invaded Kuwait and started the turmoil in the ME.....
Someone who oppressed all free speech and his own people....
What is your definition of a monster then....?
You must have a very low threshold.....
Note - I'm not saying that we dealt with Saddam in the right way - but that's a different point.....
A country like Iraq needs, or at least produces, someone like Saddam who uses force to keep his country united. He's hardly unique in that(and wasn't Churchill a great fan of chemical weapons). The official start of wars are always arbitrary. Who caused the iran-iraq war? Both countries wanted to become the regional power. The invasion of Kuwait is similary tangled. Censorship happens everywhere.
Monster is a very emotive term best used for special cases.
Saddam wasn't unique and nothing he did was unusual. He's not in the same league as hitler. If Saddam was a monster, what can we call hitler? If we call hitler a monster (can't think of many worst names), then Saddam shouldn't be called the same. And neither should trump.
Snail wrote:You're joking. I've heard media calling him monster etc. Hitler was a monster. Trump..no. I'm not even sure id call saddam a monster, never mind trump.
Have to admit, nothing trump has said or done has shocked me in the slightest.
The media has strayed from mere criticism into, effectively, emotional p o r n .
Well that's an opinion I suppose, but given the total rubbish which comes out of trump's mouth (maybe some other oriface) , not only now but look back over the years, he has always been a "I love myself (as does everyone else)" fantasist, how does the MSM counter it without appearing as you describe?
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
Snail wrote:You're joking. I've heard media calling him monster etc. Hitler was a monster. Trump..no. I'm not even sure id call saddam a monster, never mind trump.
Have to admit, nothing trump has said or done has shocked me in the slightest.
The media has strayed from mere criticism into, effectively, emotional p o r n .
Well that's an opinion I suppose, but given the total rubbish which comes out of trump's mouth (maybe some other oriface) , not only now but look back over the years, he has always been a "I love myself (as does everyone else)" fantasist, how does the MSM counter it without appearing as you describe?
What lb said really. By stopping the childish side-remarks and personal opinions. By reporting on the facts and being as neutral as possible. By reporting the news and not attempting to make it. And so on.
I continue to watch and read the news largely out of habit, but I find myself doing this less and less. I wonder how much time younger people spend on traditional msm. Because I don't think relying on twitter is a good thing.
Lord Beria3 wrote:By not calling Trump a monster or Hitler!!!
Much of the MSM does not call trump either, but I suppose you will just pick out some that do. They may liken him to a tyrant, but that is reasonable looking back at how tyrants operate. trump is doing the same by, for example, turning people against the media even when they are merely reporting facts. Inauguration day crowds for starters, while the White House current fantasists present the "alternative facts".
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
Bernie Sanders shows some signs of getting it (unlike many within the Left). Back Trump on certain issues like infrastructure spending, a more pragmatic take on foreign policy (no more dumb wars!) and engaging with Russia.
Disagree on other issues like climate change, Wall Street policy etc
Keep the tone sensible and calm and try and stick to reasoned debate and facts, not name calling like tyrant, Hitler or monster.
Of course, I don't really care too much whether the Left survives or not, it maybe the case that the liberal-left is basically doomed anyway. Still, some intelligent and constructive opposition would be good for American democracy.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
It doesn't help when people exaggerate things. Trump may have his problems, but he has not done and won't do what Hitler did. Saddam was not as bad as hitler, the issue of using gas "on his own people" was actually not caring about his own people when using it against Iran - not that it matters that much as it is still pretty awful, but it was a misleading statement as the target was Iran.
In any event his "own people" were Sunni Muslims not Kurds. (and a particular tribe).
In the US Pharma is permitted to use their damaging products on their people, indeed some of them are mandatory in some states, they call them vaccines. (There are other damaging products).
PS trump has talked about using nuclear weapons and otherwise bombing the shit out of Syria. Not as bad as Hitler? Maybe not but it's marginal if he does what he says.
To become an extremist, hang around with people you agree with. Cass Sunstein
johnhemming2 wrote:It doesn't help when people exaggerate things. Trump may have his problems, but he has not done and won't do what Hitler did. Saddam was not as bad as hitler, the issue of using gas "on his own people" was actually not caring about his own people when using it against Iran - not that it matters that much as it is still pretty awful, but it was a misleading statement as the target was Iran.
In any event his "own people" were Sunni Muslims not Kurds. (and a particular tribe).
Hitler, Saddam and others we could all name, are in the same bracket - there's no point in comparing the scale of their atrocities....
Who knows what Trump might do......, it's still early days....
wikipedia wrote:The attack was part of the Al-Anfal Campaign in northern Iraq, as well as part of the Iraqi attempt to repel the Iranian Operation Zafar 7. It took place 48 hours after the fall of the town to Iranian army.
