Bank of England announces more printy-printy...

extractorfan · Post by **extractorfan** » 15 Jun 2012, 10:22

frank_begbie wrote:Why would buinesses need money to invest, when there's no demand?

Just a pedantic point here but there is demand in some sectors, especially construction but nobody can get the funding, the banks have become risk averse so will get money off the BOE and keep it.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 15 Jun 2012, 10:33

frank_begbie wrote: Millions of people sat waiting for the end credits, and the curtains to close.

On the contrary, I believe the main show is just about to begin!

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 15 Jun 2012, 10:41

extractorfan wrote:
frank_begbie wrote:Why would buinesses need money to invest, when there's no demand?

Just a pedantic point here but there is demand in some sectors, especially construction but nobody can get the funding, the banks have become risk averse so will get money off the BOE and keep it.

Both will happen, which makes this yet another exercise in pushing a piece of string. Of course the banks will try to hold on to the money, because they know damned well that they are facing huge losses in the very near future regardless of who they lend to now. And the pressure on demand for everything apart from essential items will continue to fall, and businesses will still be very reluctant to take on new staff.

There is only demand in the construction sector in the UK because we have a fundamental shortage of housing in some parts of the country. A roof over one's head counts as an essential. I think we have some very UK-specific housing problems that need urgently solving. There are too many empty properties, too many rental properties in the hands of too few landlords and too many people all want to live in the southeast and not enough people want to live in the rest of the country, especially the old industrial centres which are currently dependent on government spending to stop their local economies from collapsing. We need a complete rethink of our housing strategy in the UK. I am personally very opposed to the building of any more houses in the southeast.

extractorfan · Post by **extractorfan** » 15 Jun 2012, 10:48

This may wind you up UE but the demand I'm talking about is for office refurbs and finishing off office blocks where other contractors have gone bust, really important stuff like. Agree about the housing in the SE but I don't know that much about the situation for domestc, I just know a bit about commercial and industrial.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 15 Jun 2012, 11:34

extractorfan wrote:the banks have become risk averse so will get money off the BOE and keep it.

Why does no-one look at precedents? The banks in Ireland got humungous, stupendous amounts of money and...nothing. It doesn't work. Those days are over, gone, kaput, finito. Every cent was trousered by faceless rich men.

The banks are vacuuming up hand-outs for their own benefits, no-one else's. Since when did banks care about customers? At what point did that happen? Huh?

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 15 Jun 2012, 12:09

UndercoverElephant wrote:
frank_begbie wrote: Millions of people sat waiting for the end credits, and the curtains to close.
On the contrary, I believe the main show is just about to begin!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jG3m0YfVmk

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 15 Jun 2012, 12:29

Actually, the whole financial shenanigans is more like:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX61PUZ3xkI

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 15 Jun 2012, 19:14

Cabrone wrote:
The system appears to be spinning in on itself faster and faster now.

http://theautomaticearth.com/Finance/au ... tself.html

Autoimmune Finance: The System Attacks Itself

The only thing that has been achieved -if we can even use that word- by the European bailouts thus far, is that bank debt is kept hidden from view. That's all. No economies have been rescued or restored, no jobs have been created, nothing. And the bank debt that we now can't see even though we know it's there, will one day forcibly be forced out into the daylight anyway, and kill the banks that hold it. And those that bailed them out.

Eventually Europe will then be forced to deal with it after all, but with the added problem of being trillions of euros poorer, in debt transferred from the private to the public sector. Hence, what Europe has been doing until now, and is doing still, severely weakens its ability to adequately execute necessary measures in the future. Europe is dragging itself and its people into the furnace, just to keep a bunch of failed banks and their loser shareholders whole. Utter madness, an extortion scam.

madibe · Post by **madibe** » 16 Jun 2012, 01:44

Look guys, can we have a little less negativity here regarding the printing of money.

Please.

It is obvious that by printing money and giving it to the banks to loan to business and Joe pulic that all will be well.

Joe public just can't wait to borrow £20,000 for a new conservatory, world cruise, consumer product (delete as appropriate)...ah, yes, you have deleted all options. Mmmm, perhaps Joe public does not actually want any debt?
I wonder why.

Ditto with buisiness and industry.

They do not want to borrow money because they are in contraction. Other sources of capital (if indeed needed) are more attractive. But most are happy to re-invest existing finance. If they can't do that then they are insoluble and are goig to fail.

What is it with all this 'borrow to expand' shit anyway. If a buisiness is not viable, borrowing money will not turn it around. Getting investment may.

There is no point loaning to companies that can not turn a profit....and if the company is indeed turning a profit it does not need to borrow - it will invest its own profits in gradual expansion.

Just my take.

So another load of bollocks really.... money travelling upwards again. Joy.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 16 Jun 2012, 07:14

The Independent - 16/06/12

Doubts growing over business lending plan

£80bn scheme could fall flat as companies shun borrowing, City warns ministers.

Article continues ...

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 16 Jun 2012, 10:45

maudibe wrote:Look guys, can we have a little less negativity here regarding the printing of money.

Please.

It is obvious that by printing money and giving it to the banks to loan to business and Joe pulic that all will be well.

Joe public just can't wait to borrow £20,000 for a new conservatory, world cruise, consumer product (delete as appropriate)...ah, yes, you have deleted all options. Mmmm, perhaps Joe public does not actually want any debt?
I wonder why.

Ditto with buisiness and industry.

They do not want to borrow money because they are in contraction. Other sources of capital (if indeed needed) are more attractive. But most are happy to re-invest existing finance. If they can't do that then they are insoluble and are goig to fail.

What is it with all this 'borrow to expand' shit anyway. If a buisiness is not viable, borrowing money will not turn it around. Getting investment may.

There is no point loaning to companies that can not turn a profit....and if the company is indeed turning a profit it does not need to borrow - it will invest its own profits in gradual expansion.

Just my take.

So another load of bollocks really.... money travelling upwards again. Joy.

Yes, it's a load of bollocks. The c***s who are running this show are 100% focused on trying to preserve a system which is fundamentally broken, because they aren't prepared to admit that it is broken. For several months now they have been doing nothing at all that was designed to fix the real problems. All they have done is kick the can down the road, and each time they did so the can got bigger so next time it required a bigger kick to move the can a shorter distance. Now the can is so large that kicking it again is likely to result in a broken leg, but they still can't/won't contemplate doing anything else (ETA: the reason being that they want to protect the rich and powerful.) Personally I'm watching the whole show with a sort of grim fascination. It's horrible for the ordinary people caught up in it, but for the politicians it must really seem like the end of the world. For them, 2012 has arrived.