jonny2mad wrote:I think the group may have been somerset community food, or linked to them somehow ?
They have a thing called food mapper, which seems to be mapping where foods grown, but at the moment seems to be mainly active in somerset and the west country.
Yes this film which i watched about Cuba was based on how Cuba has changed their ways and an important part was agriculture and i think they did become more permaculture based than they used to be as well as stopping the use of heavy machinery etc etc.
Im not sure how old this film is so im not sure if Cuba still use they methods to live or whether they have gradually changed back as their economy has got better...does anybody know?
I get the impression that whatever Castro says, goes, so it was feasible to get the community gardens working quickly. Over here, we have the NIMBY and BANANA culture that will get in the way.
I seem to remember hearing that the people started the city gardening, the state didn't at first take too kindly to this private enterprise and then realised the benefit of it and started promoting it.
I was in Cuba fairly recently (in 2007, and then again cycling across the country in 2008).
Traffic levels have gone up in the cities and on the long-distance coastal roads, and there now quite a few modern more fuel-efficient cars to be seen. The bicycle still is an important form of transport in towns, cities and lowland areas. Still a lot of old US gas guzzlers on the roads in towns though. Riding along the main 6-lane highway from Havana going west was a joy as there was virtually no traffic. A bit like Spain in the 1960s.
A ride along the north coast (going east from Havana) took us past extensive onshore oil drilling areas, but I understand this is low-grade stuff and not extensive.
Food in state-run institutions (and that includes many hotels and restaurants) is always fairly crappy. We stayed in some urban and a lot of rural private B&Bs (well, more like smallholdings, next to the pigsty) where we ate simply but well, often with food reared on the premises (first, grab your chicken). Street markets seemed well-provided with fruit and veg but the state-run shops selling rationed goods were dreary and bare looking. Anyone that's involved in tourism/external facing activities is probably fine in terms of being able to buy fresh food; many rural people are growing their own; but urban dwellers otherwise face challenging prices.
In Havana, we stayed in the house of a retired minister for international development (and his daughter-of-the-ambassor-to-Italy wife) i.e. quite prosperous and influential people. They had a large rambling house in a nice suburb, could run a car (oldish) and their home was furnished with knick knacks from the late 1950s/early 60s. Felt a bit of a time warp. They ate reasonably but simply, and were certainly not living it up (I don't think anyone does in Cuba).
Cycling across the countryside, we had the definite impression that there were still vast swathes of under-utilised arable land. Lots of what looked like ex-military areas just abandoned. Nothing like the intensity of land use we see in Europe.
I talked to quite a few people in the west of Cuba, medium-size town dwellers. They are now able to buy land from the government, grow stuff (in the west it's mainly cash crop tobacco), but the government does put impediments in their way (bureaucracy, state-fixed prices that are low) and living off the land as a private enterprise struck me as challenging.
Stuff like sale/purchase of homes, cars, land is still under control of the state.
Very extensive control of energy use. As in the past, you hardly realise you are flying over land at night, as there is virtually no public lighting outside the towns and cities (main roads only). Lots of fluorescent. And of course the complete lack of commercial US brands - or even Cuban brands - means little in the way of advertising that uses energy (hoardings, shops).
We managed to wangle a few days at an old-fashioned seaside holiday camp for 'Cubans only' (long story). This is where Cubans who've done well at work get sent as a reward, with their families. They had extensive land but I don't think they grew any of their food there. Very old skool. This was where we experienced our one and only power cut on the two trips (it lasted around 2+ hours in the evening). Fabulous, as we were in a restaurant at the top of an old tower, and the staff there were then certain that they could not be overheard (no electricity = no bugs possible; either Casro is everywhere or they believe he is everywhere) so we all drank quite a lot and they told us what they really thought about the regime.
I also should have said we saw a lot of oxen being used on the land in western Cuba. No idea is this is also the case in the eastern part of the island.
I get the impression that whatever Castro says, goes, so it was feasible to get the community gardens working quickly. Over here, we have the NIMBY and BANANA culture that will get in the way.
Sort of like what they said about Mussolini and the trains running on time really. I am wondering if the only reason the likes of Cuba have ever held together is because the regime holds ultimate power. (Same for the likes of North Korea really- if you count major starvation and a fair proportion of the population in prison camps as 'holding together'.) Us free Western liberal-democracies might not make it simply as by nature it is difficult to get enough people to agree enough for major reforms to get through and anything major to get done in a hurry- too much dithering.
woodpecker, thanks for that summary. Tell us more if you have it.
OK, they have a reasonable climate, which helps, but life doesn't sound particularly harsh - in fact, they sound fairly lucky.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
The climate certainly does help. It's freakin' fabulous
The situation now is a lot better than it was in the aftermath of Soviet disintegration. Times were harsh then, for a number of years. And I think the dirigiste approach does mean that a bit of focus can get things moving quickly (though it also means that their pet plans stay on the agenda when they shouldn't).
Of course, the US embargo affects so many things and distorts what is going on, regardless of the oil thing. For example, the situation with pharmaceuticals; we took bags of ordinary drugs to hand over to an inner city nursery run by the church.
Why is it that basic public services – like transport, power and water – are in such a decrepit condition? Why is it that, half a century after the revolution, just about every house we saw in Cuba looks as though it was built by a ten-year-old, and a university/hospital looks like an abandoned unfinished building site? Why is an international airport and the roads in such an appalling condition? Why is it that, half a century later, when western tourists visit the country, there is almost nothing for them to spend their money on bearing the stamp “Made in Cuba”?
One word: energy.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
I'm quite keen on archaeology and history of grand buildings and palaces of the past. The country is littered with them, and there used to be many more. If you read up on the history it invariably says
' Built by Nobleman A at great expense in year XXXX
Ruin completely rebuilt by B, grandson of A at great expense in year XXXX + 60
Ruin completely rebuilt by C, grandson of B, at great expense in year XXXX + 105... '
Houses need constant upkeep and repair. The entire fabric apart from stone and hard bricks will decay in 50 - 200 years.
Why is it that basic public services – like transport, power and water – are in such a decrepit condition? Why is it that, half a century after the revolution, just about every house we saw in Cuba looks as though it was built by a ten-year-old, and a university/hospital looks like an abandoned unfinished building site? Why is an international airport and the roads in such an appalling condition? Why is it that, half a century later, when western tourists visit the country, there is almost nothing for them to spend their money on bearing the stamp “Made in Cuba”?
One word: energy.
Yeah, the energy used by flying a fat westerner to Cuba for a holiday could probably keep a Cuban in energy for a year or two. Myself I'm planning to visit Mauritius to do a report on how unecessary air travel by c***s is causing sea levels to rise destroying places like......Mauritius. I shall get there by Learjet of course.
Why is it that basic public services – like transport, power and water – are in such a decrepit condition? Why is it that, half a century after the revolution, just about every house we saw in Cuba looks as though it was built by a ten-year-old, and a university/hospital looks like an abandoned unfinished building site? Why is an international airport and the roads in such an appalling condition? Why is it that, half a century later, when western tourists visit the country, there is almost nothing for them to spend their money on bearing the stamp “Made in Cuba”?
One word: energy.
Yeah, the energy used by flying a fat westerner to Cuba for a holiday could probably keep a Cuban in energy for a yearbor two.
Good, though irrelevant, point b. Is there an alternative method of travel to these places at present?
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Oh, is not even sail at least a possibility? No trade in a post-fossil-energy world?
Mind you, with global warming, I might not have to import coffee beans...
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Is there an alternative method of travel to these places at present?