Nick Clegg says cuts move 'painful but necessary'

[UndercoverElephant]

Geoff,

Appreciated your reply and totally agree. At what point then is the genie out of the jar in your opinion? When will the world (and specifically the UK) leaders get straight with the population, rather than us peak oil awares carrying the message to unwilling ears?

Steve

I just added a bit. They'll never get completely straight because they are politicians and politicians are professional liars. But they are going to have to get straighter than they are at the moment. I think the answer was in the bit I added. The politicians will do their best to prepare people for what is to come without actually telling them what is to come. In the end it will be the actions of individual people trying to protect their own financial backsides (and those of people they are paid to protect) which makes the problem impossible to hide. We're all going to suffer, but some will pay a heavier price than others and the markets are driven by individual people making judgement calls designed to make sure they aren't the ones who lose the most. That process will eventually get really nasty, because it will involve whole countries going bust. Lots of them.

[Aurora]

Geoff,

Appreciated your reply and totally agree. At what point then is the genie out of the jar in your opinion? When will the world (and specifically the UK) leaders get straight with the population, rather than us peak oil awares carrying the message to unwilling ears?

Steve

I just added a bit. They'll never get completely straight because they are politicians and politicians are professional liars. But they are going to have to get straighter than they are at the moment. I think the answer was in the bit I added. The politicians will do their best to prepare people for what is to come without actually telling them what is to come. In the end it will be the actions of individual people trying to protect their own financial backsides (and those of people they are paid to protect) which makes the problem impossible to hide. We're all going to suffer, but some will pay a heavier price than others and the markets are driven by individual people making judgement calls designed to make sure they aren't the ones who lose the most. That process will eventually get really nasty, because it will involve whole countries going bust. Lots of them.

+1. Politicians will never tell the whole truth. Many years ago, Jimmy Carter tried and look what happened to him.

[Vortex]

They themselves don't know what is going to happen, but are instead reacting to events as they occur according to their ideology and short-term political environment.

.. but that's how complex social systems work.

The systems do what they 'want' ... and tinkering won't make a lot of difference.

Twenty years from now you and your family will be in a situation which will roughly be the same whether the coalition appeared or not, Powerswitch existed or not etc.

We - including politicians - are but tiny cogs in a huge machine.

[snow hope]

They themselves don't know what is going to happen, but are instead reacting to events as they occur according to their ideology and short-term political environment.

.. but that's how complex social systems work.

The systems do what they 'want' ... and tinkering won't make a lot of difference.

Twenty years from now you and your family will be in a situation which will roughly be the same whether the coalition appeared or not, Powerswitch existed or not etc.

We - including politicians - are but tiny cogs in a huge machine.

I understand your general point, but have to say I disagree. I would say that PowerSwitch has had a very big impact amongst hundreds of people who read this forum. Personally, it has allowed me to come to terms with the mental adjustment of dealing with future decline/collapse. Although I have not made major changes in my life, I have made lots of minor changes which will help me to keep warm in winter and put food on the table if/when food is less plentiful, or I find it hard to buy. I have also learnt skills which should help in the future, when we will all need to be much more independant and capable of fixing/repairing things.

Vortex, you have made some considerable changes too, since joining PS. You shouldn't belittle what you/we have achieved to date.

[Vortex]

I agree entirely - on a personal level Powerswitch and other initiatives ARE important.

But in reality, will we have made a major long term difference?

Will George Osborne have made a major long term difference?

[2 As and a B]

"Never underestimate the power of a small group of committed citizens to change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that has."
Margaret Mead

For example, the Dubbya Gang.