Greece Watch...

Post by **adam2** » 05 Jul 2015, 20:35

A "no" vote is now a virtual certainty. Although only about half the votes have been counted, these show a 61%/39% split in favour of a "no"

An overall "yes" is still a theoretical possibility but in practice would require that a most improbable proportion of the yet to be counted ballots be in favour of "yes"

So for all practical purposes we can say that the result is a clear "NO" though the exact margin by which this has been won wont be known for some hours.

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 05 Jul 2015, 20:51

Fasten your seat-belts folks!

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 05 Jul 2015, 20:59

You are not wrong there Tarrel.

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 05 Jul 2015, 21:26

Little John wrote:You are not wrong there Tarrel.

Posslibly the first time we agree in connection with the current Greek Issue.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 05 Jul 2015, 21:41

We're about to find out who's been bluffing.

raspberry-blower · Post by **raspberry-blower** » 05 Jul 2015, 21:41

Euro is plummeting in out-of-hours trading

No surprise there.
Could be a "fun" day in the markets tomorrow

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 05 Jul 2015, 22:49

raspberry-blower wrote:Euro is plummeting in out-of-hours trading

1.416 isn't exactly "plummeting"

To be fair compared to sterling Euro is the lowest it has been this year, but it was not so far off that anyway.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 05 Jul 2015, 22:52

raspberry-blower wrote:Euro is plummeting in out-of-hours trading

No surprise there.
Could be a "fun" day in the markets tomorrow

Some people will make a shit load of money tomorrow - some of them will be Greek.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 05 Jul 2015, 22:56

Catweazle wrote:
raspberry-blower wrote:Euro is plummeting in out-of-hours trading

No surprise there.
Could be a "fun" day in the markets tomorrow
Some people will make a shit load of money tomorrow - some of them will be Greek.

Yes.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 05 Jul 2015, 23:19

Maybe, just maybe, I can give way to hope, if only for one night.......

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 05 Jul 2015, 23:28

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e25306916/

Even Wolfgang Schaueble, the powerful German finance minister who made it abundantly clear weeks ago that negotiating with Mr. Tsipras was a futile exercise, extended an olive branch, of sorts. He aid the referendum’s outcome could push Greece out of the euro zone but that exile would not necessarily be permanent; Greece would be “temporarily without it,” he said, referring to the common currency.

Ha!

August 15, 1971: Nixon Announces the end of Gold to Dollar Convertibility

http://www.24hgold.com/english/contribu ... ry+of+Gold

Nixon wrote:
The third indispensable element in building the new prosperity is closely related to creating new jobs and halting inflation. We must protect the position of the American dollar as a pillar of monetary stability around the world.

In the past 7 years, there has been an average of one international monetary crisis every year. Now who gains from these crises? Not the workingman; not the investor; not the real producers of wealth. The gainers are the international money speculators. Because they thrive on crises, they help to create them.

In recent weeks, the speculators have been waging an all-out war on the American dollar. The strength of a nation’s currency is based on the strength of that nation’s economy – and the American economy is by far the strongest in the world. Accordingly, I have directed the Secretary of the Treasury to take the action necessary to defend the dollar against the speculators.

I have directed Secretary Connally to suspend temporarily the convertibility of the American dollar except in amounts and conditions determined to be in the interest of monetary stability and in the best interests of the United States.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Jul 2015, 00:09

The European project was set up with the best of intentions, in order to stop Europeans slaughtering each other. However, the two main conflicts of the last century in Europe were about elites falling out with each other and the fact of ordinary people slaughtering each other was a consequence of that, not a cause. Secondly, those elites, when push has, once again, come to shove, have demonstrated that the people, on this occasion in Greece, can go F--k themselves. Furthermore, those same elites have not been above the pitting of one set of people in Europe against another in order to hold their line. Now there is, of course, an argument that suggests the Northern European states have taken the tack they have with Greece because of political constraints with their own electorates and, whilst this may be true, to a limited extent, I don't buy it as an argument. There are plenty of damned things those same elites have dragged their unwilling populations into including several US led debacles in the middle East of recent years. The real reason Northern European elites have taken they tack they have with Greece is because of the political constraints placed upon them by their true master's; Corporations and the banks. All of which begs the obvious question of what the bloody hell the EU is actually for?

Greece is a bit of a F--k-up of a country plagued by a corrupt political life and has been for a long time. Long before the EU came into existence, in fact. That is until, for any of it's faults, Syriza came to power. Given that the European elites have shown their true colours, even though many Greeks would like to stay in the EU, I think it is better off out of it. Or, at least, less worse off.

Or, at least, in the long run

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Jul 2015, 00:47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xsCagry-0g

Tarrel · Post by **Tarrel** » 06 Jul 2015, 06:48

Varoufakis goes:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2 ... ve-updates

"Minister no more": Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis resigns

In another extraordinary development the Greek finance minister has just announced his resignation.

In a move likely to spark further concerns about the role of other European leaders in Greece’s internal politics, Varoufakis said he was made aware of a preference by “some European participants” of his absence throughout the continuing negotiations.

The post was made on Varoufakis’ blog and there is nothing to suggest it is not authentic. It has also been cross-posted on his Twitter account.

Here’s the post in full:

The referendum of 5th July will stay in history as a unique moment when a small European nation rose up against debt-bondage.

Like all struggles for democratic rights, so too this historic rejection of the Eurogroup’s 25th June ultimatum comes with a large price tag attached. It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution – to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms.

Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

I consider it my duty to help Alexis Tsipras exploit, as he sees fit, the capital that the Greek people granted us through yesterday’s referendum.

And I shall wear the creditors’ loathing with pride.

We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office. I shall support fully Prime Minister Tsipras, the new Minister of Finance, and our government.

The superhuman effort to honour the brave people of Greece, and the famous OXI (NO) that they granted to democrats the world over, is just beginning.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 06 Jul 2015, 07:05

Varoufakis is the real deal. In other words, he has convictions (remember them?) and bases his thinking and actions on a perspective that extends beyond the past week of events and beyond his own personal political ambitions. This combination of personal attributes, in a world where politicians base their politics on little more than daily-driven market research and where to have convictions is considered a sign of weakness, is the reason why I am so tremendously sad he is going.