Brexit process

[Little John]

Oh yes, indeed...

What a terrible waste of time wishing to re-establish the democratically controlled sovereignty of of our own legislature, judiciary and borders

Best not bother eh....?

Yeah... right....

[Mark]

Oh yes, indeed...

What a terrible waste of time wishing to re-establish the democratically controlled sovereignty of of our own legislature, judiciary and borders

Best not bother eh....?

Yeah... right....

That's the Politics - my point is purely about the economic cost of a No Deal Brexit...
I believe it would be substantial, but then again, I might be wrong.....
Maybe we would get the £350 million/week for the NHS....

[stumuz1]

Nobody, that's exactly the point...., but however we wish it, these substances would still exist in a No Deal Brexit world, so the infrastructure to regulate them would need to be set up..... £££££££

This is exactly why our two votes went two different ways.

I want our farmers to stop using glyphosate. At the moment we have to persuade, bribe, cajole 27 countries to stop using this stuff.

Post Brexit I can campaign for organic UK. We can be a leading light in low impact farming and food production. And here is the salient bit. I only have to persuade my local MP who has an 800 majority to agree with me. If other people do the same, for its not a difficult sell, then glyphosate is banned.

Try getting this past the French agri businesses. No chance.

Once again post brexit you and me can make a difference.

By the time we leave the EU, about 1/3 of the biocidal products will be have been fully assessed.... some substances are already 10-15 years into study programmes....

That's the whole purpose of BPR. To record and reduce biocides. The work has been done, we are not going to have to do the research again. If the EU won't recognise the data sets, they can't use them. The same with the UK, mutatis mutandis.

The UK would then have to start again from scratch......, what a waste of time/money and it would probably also require a whole new tranche of (animal) testing....

No. As i said above the work has been done on the BPR.

Take for example, smoking. A UK/EU called company Benson and Hedges, have put a product called cigarettes on the market and made a biocidal claim, " each inhalation of smoke kills bacteria in the mouth.

The fags are authorised and put on the authorisation list.

The research and data set via RP4 submission, have shown that fags cause cancer.

What you are saying is that post brexit the UK will have to research again that fags cause cancer- No.

But I say again, BPR is a diminishing market, it really is no bigee.

Biocides is old technology. The data for them was compiled long ago.

[Little John]

This is beginning to smell of an establishment stitch up. We are going to end up with one form or another of this "backstop" bullshit. Most likely, one which involves the whole UK remaining in the customs union for an "unspecified" period of time until a "deal" is made.

This means that (a) the UK will not have left the European Union and (b) it will give the Establishment more time to wear the people down to the point where we are brought back into line.

If this comes to pass, there should be riots and insurrection.

[UndercoverElephant]

We are going to end up with one form or another of this "backstop" bullshit. Most likely, one which involves the whole UK remaining in the customs union for an "unspecified" period of time until a "deal" is made.

This means that (a) the UK will not have left the European Union and (b) it will give the Establishment more time to wear the people down to the point where we are brought back into line.

If the tories do this then they will commit electoral suicide. By the time the next election comes, it will be quite obvious that they have led the UK into a trap - that we are stuck indefinitely in a customs union we have no say in the rules of, unable to escape until/unless the EU decides to free us. Such an outcome would not merely betray the referendum result, but would be quite obviously catastrophic. Absolutely nobody in their right mind wants this outcome, and the tories would have no way of defending it. Tory support would collapse, and labour would win a landslide, probably with UKIP taking quite a lot of seats too.

The tory party knows this, and I cannot imagine they are going to let her do it. They won't vote for it. They'll either get rid of her, or vote her deal down when it comes before parliament.

It looks like we are very soon going to get a much better idea how things are going to pan out. There's clearly lots going on in the background - it looks like TM knows she's run out of road, and that there has to be some sort of breakthrough at this week's summit. If there isn't, then serious preparations are going to have to start for a no-deal. And if there is, then the ball will end up in the court of the tory euroskeptics, the DUP and anyone else who is committed to stopping whatever she's agreed with the EU.

I predict that ten days from now, a lot will have changed.

[UndercoverElephant]

All happening now. Last night stories were swirling about, saying that the tories were ready to "dump the DUP", and depend on Labour votes to get her deal through parliament. And this morning?

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-m ... al-2018-10

Theresa May's government is accused of lying about claims to have persuaded up to 30 Labour MPs to consider defying Jeremy Corbyn and backing the prime minister's Brexit deal.

Earlier this week, multiple briefings suggested that Conservative whips had held private conversations with "up to 30" Labour MPs in the belief that they could be persuaded to vote for the deal May brings back from Brussels.

However, MPs mentioned in the reports all denied having even being contacted by the Conservatives about voting for the deal.

A number of Labour MPs explicitly named in reports — including Lisa Nandy, Gareth Snell, and Caroline Flint — categorically denied to Business Insider that they have been approached by anyone in the Conservative party, with numerous other Labour MPs also dismissing the claims as being entirely fictional.

This is desperate stuff.

[Lord Beria3]

A no deal brexit is looking increasingly likely.

Greer has called it right (probably) again...

[fuzzy]

There is nothing to stop JC giving a discrete blessing to some rebel MPs who will take the heat for him and do the right thing. He is no fan of the EU in it's current state, but his hands are publicly tied by the rabid media who will shit him whatever he says, and the zombie army of 'Tory Bliar' clones who dominate his gang.

[Little John]

This is what I have been trying to argue for years. This is what we have to fight.

The systematic effort of the Transnational Elite to crush the ‘Brexit revolution’: From Brexit and Trump to Le Pen – Analysis

http://www.antiglobalization.org/2017/0 ... -analysis/

[UndercoverElephant]

This now boils down to a relatively simple equation. It isn't about the EU negotiating with Theresa May. It's about the EU deciding what it is willing to offer the UK Parliament.

We've been here before. When Cameron went to the EU before the referendum, he must have told them what he thought was necessary as an offer from the EU in order to make sure that Remain won the referendum. And the EU misjudged it quite badly. They could have offered the UK an opt-out of freedom of movement, and in retrospect that would probably have been less bad than a Leave victory. But they miscalculated that the British electorate would be too scared of leaving.

This time it is parliament they need to convince. Whatever deal they strike with May has to go before parliament, it is far from clear whether it will pass. Which causes them a real dilemma - on the one hand, they want to punish the UK for leaving. They want to make sure no other countries even think about it. But on the other, they also want to make sure that the British parliament actually accepts the deal offered rather than choosing the uncertainty and mutual chaos of a no-deal brexit.

I wonder if they have learned from their previous mistake. I suspect they have not.

[Lord Beria3]

Agreed UE.

I don't the EU leaders have learnt their lesson and a no-deal outcome is likelier then many think.

[cubes]

This is beginning to smell of an establishment stitch up.

You do realise that both sides are 'establishment' and contain 'establishment' figures don't you? There's no benefit for the little guys either way, just more sh*t. All this sovereignty bs, is just that. The first trade deal with the USA... all gone. Better where we were tbh, you've been drinking too much of the daily mail/rees-mogg kool-aid.

[Little John]

And that is typical rubbish from a remainer who cannot countenance that anyone could vote to leave from a position of having rationally arrived at a decision that being out of the Eu is, on balance, better than being in.

I am well aware of what a Tory run UK would look like. I am also aware of what the alternative looks like. That's democracy; the crucial thing you appear to have significantly missed.

[cubes]

And that is typical rubbish from a remainer who cannot countenance that anyone could vote to leave from a position of having rationally arrived at a decision that being out of the Eu is, on balance, better than being in.

Hah, I can imagine what you would have said if remain had won, it certainly wouldn't have been "OK, we lost, let's live with it". You'd have been pushing for another vote the day after the result.

I am well aware of what a Tory run UK would look like. I am also aware of what the alternative looks like. That's democracy; the crucial thing you appear to have significantly missed.

The alternative is the same, the small details differ, different people suffer, but for most of us? No more liberty, no more economic benefit. Just the few benefit, just a different few depending on who's in charge.

[Potemkin Villager]

Thoughtful piece from an Ulster Scots perspective by Ian Jack'

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... exit-union

" If the price of Brexit was Scottish independence, 77% of English Conservatives would be willing to pay it. If the price was the collapse of Northern Ireland’s peace process, 73% of them would likewise be content; among leave voters in Northern Ireland, who are overwhelmingly unionist, that figure rose to 87%, while 86% thought a yes vote in a second Scottish independence referendum would be a worthwhile price for Northern Ireland to leave the EU.

In the words of Ailsa Henderson, professor of political science at Edinburgh: “If even unionists in Northern Ireland care less about the territorial integrity of the UK than pursuing Brexit, then it really raises questions about the type of union we’re in, and indeed what unionism means.�"