Individual Survivalism vs Collective Action?

[Adam Polczyk]

Hello Jakell.

Survivalism is the only option left for those of us who have decided that societal collapse is inevitable.

You speak of survivalism as a fantasy; it's not. It's staying alive as long as possible with some dignity and eventually exiting with some dignity.

The far-right are drooling over the prospect of civil unrest, and will take full advantage of society's fault-lines (of which racism is only one) when the time comes. I will find it impossible to deal with these, never mind all the other, less predictable, elements

The idea of Survivalism may be "staying alive as long as possible with some dignity and eventually exiting with some dignity".

I simply do not believe that this idea can be turned into a practical reality.

Because of this I feel it is a distraction from any other alternative that may be more promising.

Adam

[Jakell]

Not wanting to speak for everyone, but I think we see Transition as a worthwhile effort, but understand its limitations. Much of it probably due to resistance we've encountered when undertaking the "Activist" role ourselves. Being close to family and friends, and having them onside, is what matters the most, as they are within our sphere of influence.

I see transition as being viable in smaller communities (as in transition Towns, Villages etc.)

But in cities, forget it. Any serious efforts will be quickly undone once shortages set in.

I have an allotment, but expect it to be stripped bare before I can get to harvest anything.

[chrisc]

The wife and I, on the other hand, have made some decisions, and it's more achievable for us to make the changes in our household than it is to get the whole of our local town to do anything. I'd prefer the town to gear up, but just can't see it happening until it's way too late.

It's not an either/or situation -- clearly stuff needs to be done at a household level and a community level...

An article from a couple of days ago, contains some good insights:

Ultimately, the global financial crisis of 2008 signifies the deep-seated failure of our conventional socio-economic, ethical and political models. But the ‘credit crunch’ is only one face of global crisis. We also face two other interrelated major ‘crunches’ this century – 1) oil and energy depletion, with evidence that world oil production already peaked in 2006; and 2) dangerous global warming, with evidence that current rates of increase of fossil fuel emissions will lead to a rise of 2-4 degrees Celsius, permanently disrupting Earth’s ecosystems.

...

Yet the system has perhaps another 10-15 years before irreversible collapse as the impact of peak oil kicks in. In this time-frame, as working people are increasingly upset, confused and angry about the acceleration of socio-economic injustice, activists and researchers have unprecedented opportunity to work harder than ever to develop a vision for the future that is just, inclusive and holistic. The time to prove that there are meaningful alternatives is now.

[Adam Polczyk]

If I have missunderstood then please point out where and how. If I have got it wrong then I am keen to know how and will be happy to say so...

This shows the problem with single-option polls. If you look at the threads (especially for the last poll), many suggested they fit into more than one category, in either a concurrent or alternating fashion. I also think the "survivalist" option was an ambiguous one that could be construed to mean "hardcore" (equipped but away from others) whereas in reality it's more a question of self-reliance (equipped but with others).

You are quite right about this limitation of the polls. Believe me I put a lot of thought into make them as meaningful as I could. If you can think of a way re-work them to clarify the results then I'm all for it.

"Self-Reliance"? No problem with that. It is "Self-Reliance" without any positive collective action that I think is the issue. I feel that only collective action can mitigate the effects of PO. If we don't address the big problem in the only way that has any chance of success then all your efforts to be "Self-Reliant" may well turn out to have been a waste of time.

Adam

Adam

[Jakell]

Hello Jakell.

Survivalism is the only option left for those of us who have decided that societal collapse is inevitable.

You speak of survivalism as a fantasy; it's not. It's staying alive as long as possible with some dignity and eventually exiting with some dignity.

The far-right are drooling over the prospect of civil unrest, and will take full advantage of society's fault-lines (of which racism is only one) when the time comes. I will find it impossible to deal with these, never mind all the other, less predictable, elements

The idea of Survivalism may be "staying alive as long as possible with some dignity and eventually exiting with some dignity".

I simply do not believe that this idea can be turned into a practical reality.

Because of this I feel it is a distraction from any other alternative that may be more promising.

Adam

Note that in my description of survivlalism I included the concept of closure. This is what makes it practical. No happy ever after etc.

It may be a distraction from alternatives, but life is full of distractions and alternatives. It does not hurt to hold them all in your head at once.

It is never a bad idea to consider the 'worst case scenario'. But it it is unwise to ignore possibilities because they are unpleasant

[Bandidoz]

If you can think of a way re-work them to clarify the results then I'm all for it.

Usually a "none of the above" option works, if not to merely show that not enough options were provided. It means people don't have to choose an option that doesn't really fit.

[chrisc]

I have an allotment, but expect it to be stripped bare before I can get to harvest anything.

So why do you bother?

[JohnB]

Taking collective action isn't easy.

If you try to do something with conventional neighbours you probably won't get much further than bulk buying low energy light bulbs or a bit of bulk food buying.

In a Transition Town, like minded people spread over a fairly wide area can set up networks, groups, businesses and make some relatively small changes. They will be putting in place a structure to build on as other people get the message, but will only have a fairly insignificant effect at present.

Getting a group of family members or like minded friends together is difficult, because it's very difficult to find suitable houses with land, or several adjoining houses for sale. Getting people together who have enough money available at the right time is very difficult. I've sat through many meetings when we've added up the money definitely available, and the money that might be available if we're lucky and with a bit of wishful thinking, and barely had enough to buy a place we'd looked at. And that was when houses were easy to sell to raise the money.

Then there's the system. Lammas haven't got planning permission yet, despite complying with their local low impact planning guidelines. The Threshold Centre have only just got planning permission for their co-housing scheme, after several years of trying. TPTB don't want people to get together and do something different, however good the intention.

Going it alone may be the only practical option for many people unfortunately.

[chrisc]

If you try to do something with conventional neighbours you probably won't get much further than bulk buying low energy light bulbs or a bit of bulk food buying.

I'm note sure what "conventional neighbours" are, but here is an example from Sheffield of a small (3 streets) community response (started as a climate change response) and people are doing more than changing their bulbs -- they are insulating their houses and sharing food grown on a local allotment, this article is from the local weekly paper, The Sheffield Telegraph:

Heeley's green triangle

THE Green Triangle may sound like some sort of pagan sect but it's actually a group of around 40 householders from Heeley who, over the last two years, have got together to share energy-saving tips and socialise.

"In the past people used to know all their neighbours," says Green Triangle member and climate change activist Heather Hunt.

"So we thought this was a good way to engage other people about ways to save energy and get to talk to our neighbours, too."

The triangle consists of Shirebrook, Kent and Albert roads and the social side is as important as the educational side of the group's activities, with regular get-togethers and (often home-grown) meals shared amongst members.

On Saturday, September 13, members will be offering a guided tour of some of the houses in the Green Triangle to see examples of what can be done to improve the energy efficiency of homes and to keep down fuel bills.

"Draughtproofing is most important, and good insulation," says Heather, who says ambitious solar or wind schemes should only be considered once you've got the rest of the energy-saving equation in place.

"This idea of the Green Triangle could be repeated amongst any group of neighbours." Members of the Heeley group are happy to advise potential groups in other parts of the city.

http://greentriangle.wetpaint.com/

OK, this isn't the most "conventional" part of the city but it does show that household and community action is possible...

[JohnB]

I've probably got a rather distorted view of neighbours, after spending 10 years living next to some weird ones

[Jakell]

I have an allotment, but expect it to be stripped bare before I can get to harvest anything.

So why do you bother?

This is a good question, but one which i have satisfactorily answered for myself.
I bother because it is a sound, productive, healthy, satisfying activity that harms no-one. It also keeps my growing skills sharp and I'm still learning new stuff.

My prediction above is a future scenario that I believe is pretty inevitable in an urban environment. I get a reasonable harvest for now.

[Jakell]

Taking collective action isn't easy.

If you try to do something with conventional neighbours you probably won't get much further than bulk buying low energy light bulbs or a bit of bulk food buying.

In a Transition Town, like minded people spread over a fairly wide area can set up networks, groups, businesses and make some relatively small changes. They will be putting in place a structure to build on as other people get the message, but will only have a fairly insignificant effect at present.

.

I still prefer my conventional neighbours however, warts an all. I find some starry eyed 'community' groups are often composed of a bunch of 'new-agers' from around the city who do not resemble any actual local community that i know of. There is no harm in this, but it does imbue the members with the notion that most people are like them.
There are exceptions such as student areas, or areas adopted by ex students. These can compound the above delusion.

If I see the word 'community' attached to anything, I become wary and take a closer look

[DominicJ]

Adam
Google alpha rubicon

There plenty of articles on there about people eating steak with all the trimmings and watching satellite TV whilst no one within 50 miles has water power or electricity because of hurricanes, snow storms or even just black outs

People who are self sufficient in water, power and food, at todays standards, for a decade

Ok, they cant fight off a government "fair distribution" program, but neither can a transition town

If you want join a transition town, good for you, I dont believe "the peoples republic of mossley" is going to save my arse any better than anything I can do, either alone, or with a select group of friends.

[Adam Polczyk]

If you can think of a way re-work them to clarify the results then I'm all for it.

Usually a "none of the above" option works, if not to merely show that not enough options were provided. It means people don't have to choose an option that doesn't really fit.

The poll "What do you believe is the most likely outcome of Peak Oil?" had such an option and the previous polls were constructed in such a way as not to need one. However, for the last poll I explicitely worded the question as "Which of the following best describes your attitude towards Peak Oil?" because I wanted people to express their bias one way or another.

Ultimately whether anyone is a hardcore Survivalist or simple driven towards "Self-reliance" isn't that important. What I was seeking to explore the ultimate viability of any such response given the apparent reluctance by a significant portion of the forum membership to engage in any kind of collective action.

Adam

[snow hope]

Ultimately Adam is right, you can't survive all by yourself or just your family for years and years. But I don't think there are more than a handful of people on this forum who have ever thought that.

I think what Biff said about the analysis is correct, a lot of folks, myself included would like to have selected more than one option in some or all of the polls as many options were not mutually exclusive.

Many of us, recognising the problems we can forsee, are preparing as best as possible for bad times, whilst realising that few others seem to have the same visions we have. This may seem like survival mode, but imo it is merely first sensible steps we can take - walking before running.

If it appears that few others seem to see the impending problems, then naturally it does not encourage us to try to form groups in order to convince the rest of the world that we have massive issues about to whack us all in the face! If more people could see the situation more clearly, then we would be more likely to see the benefits of forming groups to spread the message and mitigate the problems.

But as I said, I agree we cannot survive in isolation. Unfortunately sometimes there are no easy answers - I consider this is one of those times.

Like many people (I suspect) we fear that TSWHTF before we, nevermind everybody else, are ready. And that's what is so fecking scary about the whole situation..... and no doubt colours people's opinions on whether there is really any point in spreading the message!

It is complex (needless to say).