The Times: Police set to step up hacking of home PCs

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

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gug
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Post by gug »

Vortex wrote:I have found that:

1. There are a lot of spooks about.
2. They are nice people.
3. They have the full weight of the authorities behind them.
4. They believe in what they are doing.
5. They don't care about you as an individual - they will go away once you play ball ... or crush you if you resist.

Interesting definition of "nice".
They dont care about you as an individual and will crush you if you resist.

The security services also engage in corruption and "murder" (although its never called that when governments are involved).
I'd argue that they're not nice at all and any fondness for them is misplaced nationalism (othewise why not wax lyrical about the niceness of mossad, sdece, etc etc.)


Did anyone notice the rash of stories on the BBC in the past day or two about Mi5 (reason probably being their centenary). The one that made me laugh was the head of Mi5 saying that home grown terrorism has been thwarted due to their efforts.
So , thats the head of Mi5 saying Mi5 are great. Nice news story <rolls eyes>




vortex wrote:
In reality - unless you are very brave - you will probably be well advised not to fight Big Brother.

Why fight, just subvert.
MI5 had files on Jack Straw in the 70s

(not that i'm advocating getting in government by turning into a tosser)


Incidentally, if you really have something to hide, you could just hide it in the open with steganography.

http://steghide.sourceforge.net
MacG
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Post by MacG »

RalphW wrote:I have access to the passwords on our student database. In bored moment I did a crude analysis of chosen passwords. I think it safe to say only a tiny percentage met the criteria of being even remotely 'safe'.

That said, I use easy passwords for low value sites, reserving truly random and hard to remember ones for important accounts.

Apart from the usual pet names, inflated (alter)egos seem popular...
Hehe! I prefer the (really) rude and nasty words for pw's. Easy to remember, you hesitate to share them (specially with friends and family) and above all, most of those dictionaries seem to be maintained by puritans! Rarely is a really rude and nasty word found in a dictionary!
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Post by IanG »

I started my career in IT over 20 years ago.

Early in my career, I was responsible for an early Novell network at a large bank. I had a phone call one day when I was out of the office. One of the staff had gone mental and trashed most of the servers - and they thought that mine was one of the few supervisor accounts not trashed - could I give my password so they could restore the network.....

I was young at the time and fancied one of the girls in the office,....

Needless to say an oath was taken not to divulge the contents of the password and the gentleman concerned kept his word :D
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Vortex
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Post by Vortex »

Interesting definition of "nice".
They dont care about you as an individual and will crush you if you resist.
I'm sure you can get nice bailiffs.

I'm sure you can get nice judges.

I'm sure you can get nice politicians ... err .. maybe not.

Anyway, people seem to be able to separate their private personalities from their job roles.
chrisc
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There are a lot of spooks about

Post by chrisc »

Vortex wrote:I have found that:

1. There are a lot of spooks about.
How did you find this out?
Vortex wrote:2. They are nice people.
Point two implies you know them personally? As opposed to just basing point one on the funding / numbers employed by these agencies?

I have never come across anyone who admits to being a spook... I guess it's kinda counter productive for them to do so... :roll:
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mobbsey
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Post by mobbsey »

Vortex wrote:I have found that:
1. There are a lot of spooks about.
True -- what was interesting was the way that the police infiltrated campaign groups in the 80's and 90s, and then used the skills they learnt to take apart the animal rights networks in the UK over the last decade.
Vortex wrote:2. They are nice people.
I go along with that too -- generally they're pretty funny people who like a laugh -- it tends to be the blokes in tweeds from MI5 who're the sad buggers who won't talk to you (well they can't, officially they're not there!).
Vortex wrote:3. They have the full weight of the authorities behind them.
And then some more which isn't strictly allowed -- as seen by the recent farce over NETCU's off-the-record statements to The Observer (http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2008/12 ... oia-squad/).

BTW, you do realise that NETCU is a private company under the control of another private company, 'The Association of Chief Police Officers', and so is not subject to the same rules of disclosure and accountability that other police organisations must adhere to?
Vortex wrote:4. They believe in what they are doing.
True, but I think they prefer the overtime, and cracking rally fowl jokes about women peace protestors!
Vortex wrote:5. They don't care about you as an individual - they will go away once you play ball ... or crush you if you resist.
That's the bit I disagree with. Police spooks are like a form of herpes -- if you get caught in their clutches once they'll keep coming back.

The key thing is not to resist. If you resist then they can do precisely what they want to you because you've behaved precisely as they want you to. Alternately, if you're nice, courteous (I once offered the the police a cooked breakfast whilst they were ransacking my house -- what fun!) then it is they who lose control -- bcecause they have no idea how to handle you. As Alinsky says, you have to push them beyond their own experience, whilst at the same time make them meet the terms of their own rules (they just can't do it -- so much of the police's exercise of power relies on winding up the people that they want to arrest so that they can arrest and process them).

Eventually (although it helps to have a good knowledge of the various rules and regulations on detention and evidence) you can completely screw up their day by smiling and being relaxed (again, I remember a wonderful incident where I drove a sergent loopy because we'd spend five minutes working out precisely what he meant by the terms he was using in each of his questions, after which I'd answer with just a "yes" or "no").

They can only crush you if you have something to lose. Having "b'in there and done that" with visits, a heavy raid and other hassles in the 80s and 90s, if you're prepared to be a complete psycho and risk everything it tends to really annoy them. They can't deal with that because you're not playing within their power dynamic -- instead they have to enter into yours.

What scares people about the police is the thoughts they have about the police being nasty; once you've met that and gone through it (an experience I find is corroborated by the exploits of other direct action protestors from peace and environmental groups and the 80's/90's) then it gets harder for them to intimidate you.
Vortex
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Post by Vortex »

if you get caught in their clutches once they'll keep coming back.
They will however eventually leave you alone if you have done nothing of interest for 4 or 5 years.
Blue Peter
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Post by Blue Peter »

mobbsey wrote:They can only crush you if you have something to lose. Having "b'in there and done that" with visits, a heavy raid and other hassles in the 80s and 90s, if you're prepared to be a complete psycho and risk everything it tends to really annoy them. They can't deal with that because you're not playing within their power dynamic -- instead they have to enter into yours.
The being a complete psycho "advice"(?) seems to differ from your advice to be pleasant and co-operative. Was 'psycho' the correct choice of word? or are you talking about something else in that final sentence?


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mobbsey
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Post by mobbsey »

Blue Peter wrote:[The being a complete psycho "advice"(?) seems to differ from your advice to be pleasant and co-operative. Was 'psycho' the correct choice of word? or are you talking about something else in that final sentence?
I don't use this term in the literal, clinical sense.

Modern society is risk-averse. Doing somthing like pointing out the the inspector in charge of a Tactical Support Unit that their failure to display their numbers on their uniform is in contravention of the police standards guidelines is the opposite of being risk averse.

The general definition of a 'neurosis' is a psychological malady where someone knows what they do is deviant and is plagued by guilt about it; a 'psychosis' is where they might know that what they are doing is deviant from what society expects but they have absolutely no problem whatsoever in doing it.

In my past campaigning work I'm defintely in the latter of these two camps!
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Bandidoz
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Post by Bandidoz »

mobbsey wrote:I once offered the the police a cooked breakfast whilst they were ransacking my house -- what fun!
Kind of reminds me of Mark Thomas - he has a real camaraderie with a number of police officers (even those who administer the "mass lone demo"); at some demonstrations he even gets his own police escort. I believe a number of officers recognise that he knows the law better than they do.
mobbsey wrote:if you're prepared to be a complete psycho
Just being able to think outside the box and playing the game is oddball enough ;)
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ziggy12345
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Post by ziggy12345 »

PGP Ver 6 is the only encryption program that doesnt have an official back door. It is still safe against the brute force of severall million playstation 3 chips. If you ever try to use it you can rest assured GCHQ will be into everything you do in about an hr.
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mobbsey
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Post by mobbsey »

DominicJ wrote:Isnt a firewall easier?
Not if it's proprietary!

Proprietary software allows the insertion of backdoors which no one can spot. Free/open source code had a higher degree of security because the computer community can "see" the code and know that there's no hidden functions in there for the security services to exploit.

The same is true of most broadband routers -- they have their firmware locked up on the chip (most consumer electronics micro-controllers, once programmed, do allow the program to be directly read out from the chip; the code is only available to the CPU inside the chip). So it's possible that manufacturer's could be leant on to include backdoors there too.

I've been using Gnu/Linux since 1999 (October's my 10th anniversary!), and I've been Windoze-less since 2001. It works! (and I mean that in the sense that it doesn't keep crashing and interrupting your train of thought, so allowing you to work creatively for longer).

Hopefully, by the end of the week, my new materials for the day workshop in Linux installation that I run will be available via the web site:
http://www.fraw.org.uk/download/cltc/index.shtml

I tried them out at a workshop on Saturday, and as all seemed to go well I'll put them on-line later in the week. Also, as part of the discussion of Gnu/Linux, I highlight the links not just to security/usability, but also the wider issue of how ever-more restrictive intellectual property rights are affecting our lives.


P.
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Post by caspian »

ziggy12345 wrote:PGP Ver 6 is the only encryption program that doesnt have an official back door. It is still safe against the brute force of severall million playstation 3 chips. If you ever try to use it you can rest assured GCHQ will be into everything you do in about an hr.
Ziggy, what is your evidence to back up this statement? If you use PGP to encrypt files on your own PC, nobody will ever know it unless they actually examine your machine (which they couldn't do remotely unless you allowed it, or your machine was compromised by malware). If you use PGP to encrypt your emails, they would be swamped by the billions of other emails whizzing across the Internet, which means you won't stand out in the crowd. Your encrypted emails would only elicit interest if the authorities already had a watch on you or on the people you contact. Even then they would need a warrant to justify ordering you to divulge your decryption keys under the RIPA.

There are plenty of things this Government are doing that you need to be paranoid about, but this isn't one of them.
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WolfattheDoor
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Post by WolfattheDoor »

If you were really paranoid (mind you, with this government...) you could encrypt the file with PGP, then change the extension to, say, JPG. Then send it as an email attachment.

Any snoopers would just see a picture being transmitted so, unless they were specifically looking, they wouldn't suspect anything.

At the other end, of course, change the extension back to PGP and decrypt.

First, encrypt, then hide.
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MacG
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Post by MacG »

WolfattheDoor wrote:If you were really paranoid (mind you, with this government...) you could encrypt the file with PGP, then change the extension to, say, JPG. Then send it as an email attachment.

Any snoopers would just see a picture being transmitted so, unless they were specifically looking, they wouldn't suspect anything.

At the other end, of course, change the extension back to PGP and decrypt.

First, encrypt, then hide.
A kindergarten version of steganography. Easily detected for someone who screen traffic. A true jpg contain a lot of plain-text metadata, and if that seem to be missing *dang* you have attracted a lot of interest from the screening algorithms. If you can attach a fake jpg header it is a pretty good idea though - both jpg and pgp data is very close to perfectly random and it will take quite advanced statistical analysis to tell the difference if the jpg metadata is there.
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