New House - what would you do?

CountingDown · Post by **CountingDown** » 06 Jan 2009, 21:10

I think I'd go for the plain ol' woodburner rather than a pellet system - rather too dependant on the whole supply chain for me.

Mind you, I'm so paranoid about redundant systems that I'll probably end up with a PassivHaus with two wood-fired stoves, a gas fire and an electric MVHR (with a shed full of spares for them all too)

CountingDown · Post by **CountingDown** » 06 Jan 2009, 21:17

Hoffie wrote: Am I mad to imagine that the Govt will sort out power generation (nuclear) before the lights go out?

I mioght be wrong on this . . but I believe the lead time for building a Nuclear Power station is something like 10-15 years - and power shortages are forecast within 5.

So I wouldn't be depending on the Government to sort it out!

Adam2 - Interesting suggestion on the storage heaters and the electric immersion heater, hadn't thought that way. I was considering Solar Hot Water teamed up with Wood Burning Stove with backboiler and probably a Gas backup too

told you I was paranoid.

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 07 Jan 2009, 08:44

It depends how you define "shortage"

If Gas costs 50p a kwh instead of 3p, there wont be "shortages", it'll be available, just not at a price I can afford.

Or, the government could step in, fix the price of gas at 3p a kwh, and then ration it.

Labour and rationing, go hand in hand

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 07 Jan 2009, 09:51

Mind you, I'm so paranoid about redundant systems that I'll probably end up with a PassivHaus with two wood-fired stoves, a gas fire and an electric MVHR (with a shed full of spares for them all too)

... which, come a crisis, will be confiscated for the 'common good' by someone at the local council who fancies being toasty warm whilst workng on Planning Applications or Dog Fouling edicts.

CountingDown · Post by **CountingDown** » 07 Jan 2009, 10:55

Damn, so you mean I've got to go out and buy those crossbows then . . .

goslow · Post by **goslow** » 07 Jan 2009, 11:12

interesting about storage heaters. our last house had them and they had the aura of a poor man's central heating, but in the end they worked quite well for us. hey were only installed in the downstairs rooms with no heating as such in the bedrooms.

Best then seems to be designing a passiv haus from scratch. Retrofitting that level of insulation looks impossible.

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 07 Jan 2009, 11:31

My girlfriends family just got rid of their electric storage heaters.
Replaced it with a gas combi, and no hot water tank.
More or less south facing, ab0out 10 degrees east

However, they're saving a small fortune.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 07 Jan 2009, 15:30

andrew-l wrote:Adam2 - Interesting suggestion on the storage heaters and the electric immersion heater, hadn't thought that way. I was considering Solar Hot Water teamed up with Wood Burning Stove with backboiler and probably a Gas backup too
told you I was paranoid.

Without the gas, the immersion heater is a wise addition, cheap to install and replace so there's really no excuse. I've replaced them myself and it's fairly simple. Soft water helps prolong their life.

We've solar DHW and a back-boiler wood stove, with a large well-insulated tank and immersion heater; we're in a small, well-insulated house. The system is as near to perfect as I can get (well, it will be after a few more improvements). Solar in summer, solar (via wood) in winter. Bags of hot water all year round with the immersion heater on only occasionally - plus a cosy house.

It was minus 6 during the night yet today the solar panel put some useful energy into our tank, so you can gain even in winter. The panel was possibly one of my most satisfying spends.

Thinks: a further improvement could be a small wind turbine which runs the CH pump and dumps excess power into a second immersion heater or into a storage heater.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 07 Jan 2009, 15:31

emordnilap wrote:It was minus 6 during the night yet today the solar panel put some useful energy into our tank, so you can gain even in winter. The panel was possibly one of my most satisfying spends.

I think we've had more solar power this winter than we had all summer.

IanG · Post by **IanG** » 07 Jan 2009, 15:47

I get half hourly data out of my pilot Solar PV installations.

Below summary data from 16 panel 2.88 kWp system.

.............. Highest ........ Lowest ........ Ave ........ Expected ........ Mth output
Jun-08 ........ 18.23 ........ 4.12 ........ 12.83 ........ 11.16 kWhs ........ 384.90 kWhs
Jul-08 ........ 19.20 ........ 3.30 ........ 11.67 ........ 10.67 kWhs ........ 361.63 kWhs
Aug-08 ........ 15.95 ........ 3.26 ........ 8.59 ........ 9.97 kWhs ........ 266.16 kWhs
Sep-08 ........ 14.80 ........ 2.02 ........ 7.86 ........ 8.20 kWhs ........ 235.83 kWhs
Oct-08 ........ 13.95 ........ 0.61 ........ 7.23 ........ 5.22 kWhs ........ 224.20 kWhs
Nov-08 ........ 8.64 ........ 0.09 ........ 2.92 ........ 3.03 kWhs ........ 87.50 kWhs
Dec-08 ........ 7.45 ........ 0.11 ........ 3.20 ........ 1.61 kWhs ........ 99.33 kWhs
Jan-09 ........ 7.88 ........ 0.36 ........ 3.86 ........ 2.20 kWhs ........ 23.17 kWhs

What the numbers show is that August was dreadful, December produced more energy than November - When the model predicts 55% of November output.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 07 Jan 2009, 16:09

Andy Hunt wrote:
emordnilap wrote:It was minus 6 during the night yet today the solar panel put some useful energy into our tank, so you can gain even in winter. The panel was possibly one of my most satisfying spends.
I think we've had more solar power this winter than we had all summer.

The weather in the months leading to our solar panel installation was at times idyllic. Indeed, right up to the moment of commissioning, practically too hot to work. Then...

stumuz · Post by **stumuz** » 08 Jan 2009, 09:26

emordnilap wrote: Thinks: a further improvement could be a small wind turbine which runs the CH pump and dumps excess power into a second immersion heater or into a storage heater.

YES, YES!

I have been looking for a storage heater that could take power straight from a turbine without any luck, although I'm rationed to 45 mins a day internet time, I have been looking for about 2 weeks and have given up!

Do you have anything in mind?

Post by **adam2** » 08 Jan 2009, 10:04

stumuz wrote:
emordnilap wrote: Thinks: a further improvement could be a small wind turbine which runs the CH pump and dumps excess power into a second immersion heater or into a storage heater.
YES, YES!

I have been looking for a storage heater that could take power straight from a turbine without any luck, although I'm rationed to 45 mins a day internet time, I have been looking for about 2 weeks and have given up!

Do you have anything in mind?

To work a circulating pump from a wind turbine you will also need a battery since otherwise the pump will stop when the wind drops which is unlikely to be acceptable.
Either change the pump for a 12 volt one, or use an inverter to run a 230 volt pump.

As regards storage heating from a wind turbine, this is entirely possible but a little more complex than at first appears.
I will post in more detail in the wind powered heating thread.
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... php?t=8764