New House - what would you do?

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 06 Jan 2009, 10:00

Does it manage cooking and woodburning well?
I've been warned that its either/or.

Especialy if you want to boil a kettle or some such.

Bedrock Barney · Post by **Bedrock Barney** » 06 Jan 2009, 10:17

Vortex wrote:Gosh, the iPod of woodburners ...

Good job I've got a thick skin. I have a history of not taking the bait on forums.

Gimme a break - we did get rid of the Prius.

DominicJ wrote:Does it manage cooking and woodburning well?
I've been warned that its either/or.

Especialy if you want to boil a kettle or some such.

Seems to work! Lift left hand lid. Place kettle on plate. Water boils. Drink tea. If temperature has dropped (ie if fuel has burned down) we put the fire door on the latch for 10 mins which boosts the plate temperature.

I'm informed that the Esse is a cleaner burning device than most. Interestingly we only seem to have to empty ash from the fire box every 4 weeks or so - therefore it must be burning efficiently.

CountingDown · Post by **CountingDown** » 06 Jan 2009, 11:55

A great topic - and some really hard thinking you'll need to do!

We're not building a new house, but are looking for at doing a major renovation and extension. Obviously (as I'm on here) this will have some strong peak-oil themese running through it. I have to confess I've pretty much given up on Global Warming, so I'm not incredibly focussed on the energy it's going to take to build it.

What I'm focused on is a house that requires as little energy as possible to run - heat, cooking, hot water and light etc. And where energy is required I want to have multiple sources so that we can cope with short- and longer-term interruptions and shortages.

I was just about to post a question as to whether anybody had managed a Passive House - style renovation, and what the group think on it is?

I've been doing a fair bit of desktop research on it (more details here) and think that the Passivhaus standards seem to be what everybody here is talking about - a superinsulated house with 300mm in the walls and 400 in the roof.

I think the peak-oil version of this builds in a multi-fuel stove, and is prepared to have lots of spares for the MVHR, which'll be powered by Solar PV.

Just got to a) sell our house and b) find somewhere to buy that fits the bill and we'll get going.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 06 Jan 2009, 12:59

emordnilap wrote:Built into the south-facing side of a hill is ideal - though the chances of you being that lucky with your site are remote.

This is exactly what I would say - earth-sheltered is the way to go to simply remove the need for heating. The Hockerton Housing Project recorded a minimum temperature of 16 Centigrate one February, without any heating whatsoever - although they do have woodburners for extra heating when needed.

Maybe you don't need a hill, you could just make your own. If I had the chance, that's what I'd go for I think.

Also good for security maybe - there's simply no 'back door'.

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 06 Jan 2009, 13:07

Is damp not a problem??

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 06 Jan 2009, 13:29

DominicJ wrote:Is damp not a problem??

Dunno - why not ask them?

http://www.hockertonhousingproject.org.uk/

DominicJ · Post by **DominicJ** » 06 Jan 2009, 14:08

It seems they need mechanical ventilation to prevent it, but I dont think me and the energy savings trust report have the same idea of what damp is.

Bedrock Barney · Post by **Bedrock Barney** » 06 Jan 2009, 14:10

Andy Hunt wrote:
emordnilap wrote:Built into the south-facing side of a hill is ideal - though the chances of you being that lucky with your site are remote.
This is exactly what I would say - earth-sheltered is the way to go to simply remove the need for heating. The Hockerton Housing Project recorded a minimum temperature of 16 Centigrate one February, without any heating whatsoever - although they do have woodburners for extra heating when needed.

Maybe you don't need a hill, you could just make your own. If I had the chance, that's what I'd go for I think.

Also good for security maybe - there's simply no 'back door'.

I visited HHP last year (CPD visit)

Very impressed with what they have achieved....however, I did find the house interior to be warmer, and dare I say it, stuffier than I would be happy with. We visited on a sunny day in April. I suspect it gets pretty hot in the summer and obviously you can't throw open windows at the back to let the air through!

Post by **adam2** » 06 Jan 2009, 14:28

I would certainly agree that very high standards of insulation are desirable in order to minimise fuel use, all forms of fuel including wood may be in future short supply.

Presuming that some heat is still required, the choice comes down to gas, electricity, or wood.

I would avoid gas, for the following reasons
1) substantial installation costs, money perhaps better spent elswhere.
2) Expensive to service and maintain, not user servicable.
3) The smallest readily available gas boiler has a much greater output than needed for a very well insulated home
4) Doubts over future prices.

I would therefore suggest instaling both a wood stove and electric storage heaters.

The wood stove has the advantage that fuel is readily stored against shortages.
Remember that very small radiators will heat the rooms in a super insulated home, therefore a stove that is intended to supply only 2/3 radiators, could easily heat an entire house with perhaps 6 very small radiators. A backup battery would be advisable for the circulating pump.

Electric storage heaters have the great advantage of simplicity and reliability, they should last for decades.
In a well insulated home, the smallest storage heaters should be sufficient, and the running costs moderate.
If the home must be left empty in severe weather, then storage heaters left on minimum will prevent frost damage.
Storage heaters are virtually immune to rota power cuts, since they charge at night when such cuts are very rare.

The installation of both solid fuel and off peak electric heat may appear extravagant, but would give very useful flexibility.

Any hot water tank should contain an immersion heater, the installation cost is trivial, and the running costs of little consequence if it is seldom used.

When wiring the house, essiential low power appliances (lighting, fridge, freezer, heating pumps, cellphone charger, small TV , computer, modem or cable box etc.) should be on a dedicated circuit to facilitate any future use of a generator or inverter.

It would also be worth considering installing a 12 volt lighting system, connected to a battery and PV module.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 06 Jan 2009, 17:02

Bedrock Barney wrote:Regarding wood fired cookers, we have been running an Esse for nearly 12 months. Very pleased so far. The model we opted for also provides hot water.

Bit pricey but should last many many years.

http://www.esse.com/cookers/cookers/woodfired.html

Can't seem to access pricing - what kind of cost? I am looking into this area at the moment.

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 06 Jan 2009, 18:39

Andy Hunt wrote:Maybe you don't need a hill, you could just make your own. If I had the chance, that's what I'd go for I think.

Hockerton is on flat ground. It's a great idea for small plots, because you can use the roof for growing space. So you could potentially have a house with a garden that covers 100% of your land!

Hoffie · Post by **Hoffie** » 06 Jan 2009, 18:59

Thanks for all the feedback. I think some of you are a little more dedicated to preparing for peak oil and loss of mainstream energy sources than me!

Am I mad to imagine that the Govt will sort out power generation (nuclear) before the lights go out? I obviously need to look at more of the forums on this site!

I have no gas, so my options are electricity, wood, coal and oil. Sourcing wood should be OK, but who knows what the future might bring. It seems more likely that wood will be available in the future than oil and electricity. I will look at wood pellet stoves again - it anyone using these - there was only one recommendation.

I did specify super-insulation. I am sure that is not up to Passivhaus house standards. I will review that again, and see if I need more.

The response to MVHR is a bit worrying. Has anyone had direct positive or negative experience? Part of the house is underground, and good ventilation will be important. It is a big house (though until some of you suggested having only 120m2 for a large family I did not think this) - and if I have a good stove I wanted to circulate the spare heat using MVHR rather than having radiators - a back boiler would be for HW only.

I will have to invest some time looking into some of the links etc you all provided. I will probably not have time until the weekend, but wanted to say thanks for all the feedback so far!

CountingDown · Post by **CountingDown** » 06 Jan 2009, 19:49

I'm starting to look seriously at MVHR - once you have super-insulated the house, triple-glazed all your windows and doors, and made the house air-tight then surely you need some form of ventilation so you don't all suffocate in your own emissions!

I'm guessing that part of the opposition to it here is the "where will the maintenance and replacement parts come from WTSHTF"? Which is a good point to consider. All depends on how quickly you think we'll descend to a pre-industrial level! I haven't seen one to really analyse, but surely the main moving part is an electric motor - you can stockpile a spare, and someone will still have the skills to maintain and refurb these things for many years yet. And, ultimately, you can always just open a window for ventilation if all our high-tech systems are goners.

I'm assuming that MVHR does work - there seem to be plenty of places where it is a standard item, not some way-out greenie product. Has anyone seen one that doesn't? or has other concerns?

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 06 Jan 2009, 20:54

Hoffie wrote:TAm I mad to imagine that the Govt will sort out power generation (nuclear) before the lights go out? I obviously need to look at more of the forums on this site!

Yes, and yes, this site provides some great information on the energy gap.

Hoffie wrote:I have no gas, so my options are electricity, wood, coal and oil. Sourcing wood should be OK, but who knows what the future might bring. It seems more likely that wood will be available in the future than oil and electricity. I will look at wood pellet stoves again - it anyone using these - there was only one recommendation.

Someone posted up something on the Green Building Forum about the sudden rise in the cost of wood pellets recently. Reading between the lines, it seems they're now being priced according to the price of oil.

Hoffie wrote:if I have a good stove I wanted to circulate the spare heat using MVHR rather than having radiators - a back boiler would be for HW only.

If you have a back boiler, you'll need at least one radiator to dump the excess heat. AFAIK, you can't have a back boiler without some way to stop the system overheating. You may as well size your stove to provide UFH or radiator heating too.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 06 Jan 2009, 21:00

A lot of pellet stoves (well all the ones I've seen) rely on leccy for the feed and ignition. Our woodburner needs nowt except me sawing up chunks of wood and throwing them on. In the absence of wood we could put coal on, old copies of the Yorkshire Post (suitably squashed) or unwanted callers

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