Too late? Why scientists say we should expect the worst

[MacG]

As far as climate change is concerned, did anybody really think the world would make the major changes needed before we see evidence that really affects us?

Restricting transportation, bringing in laws to reduce energy wastage...governments aren't really going to do anything serious until the tides overtop the Thames Barrier or you get hurricanes in Florida in April.

It's all reminiscent of WW2 where they ignored Hitler until the bombs started falling.

It was the UK that declared war first.

[clv101]

To suggest that all IR radiation is already blocked at low levels is simply ridiculous.

How do you think satellite remote sensing platforms measure NDVI for example? Or why aren't the sea's already boiling for that matter! Incident shortwave radiation (some 377ish W/m2 ave if I remember right) is approximately balanced by outgoing longway... outgoing.

[Bandidoz]

Transmittance from Wikipedia....

...which does indicate saturation @ 14.5um, but only across a small part of the IR spectrum. Increased CO2 would shrink the "open" parts of the window. Again, the missing info' is the frequency distribution of emitted IR - though I would guess it would be something like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wiens_law.svg

So it would appear that for MacG's "window" analogy, "feathering black blinds" would be more appropriate than "a black curtain".......a wideband signal through narrowband filters.

[MacG]

To suggest that all IR radiation is already blocked at low levels is simply ridiculous.

How do you think satellite remote sensing platforms measure NDVI for example? Or why aren't the sea's already boiling for that matter! Incident shortwave radiation (some 377ish W/m2 ave if I remember right) is approximately balanced by outgoing longway... outgoing.

People without knowledge about the basics of spectroscopy tend to have difficulties understanding things like absorption bands. Usually don't stop them from being "climate experts" though...

[biffvernon]

In 1978 the Ecology Party, now the Green Party, had its office in my flat in Hampstead. I was a member of the team that wrote a pamphlet called The Reckoning,

Oooo, nostalgia, I was there and one of them.

It's amazing that 30 years on people still don't understand the simplest of things.

[clv101]

At about 20 ppm CO2, effectively all IR radiation is captured.

Please explain how this can be the case.

[MacG]

At about 20 ppm CO2, effectively all IR radiation is captured.

Please explain how this can be the case.

Take a basic course in spectroscopy. Please.

[Prono 007]

Take a basic course in spectroscopy. Please.

You have my sympathies. It appears your best argument has been demolished and not only that you're in a minority. That's tough for anyone. I think you did a good job anyway. Well done for putting the alternative case from a minority position. We've probably all learned something from it too.

[Andy Hunt]

As far as climate change is concerned, did anybody really think the world would make the major changes needed before we see evidence that really affects us?

Restricting transportation, bringing in laws to reduce energy wastage...governments aren't really going to do anything serious until the tides overtop the Thames Barrier or you get hurricanes in Florida in April.

It's all reminiscent of WW2 where they ignored Hitler until the bombs started falling.

It was the UK that declared war first.

The Poles might disagree with you.

[RevdTess]

It's suddenly going all Fawlty Towers...

"You started it!"
"No I didn't!"
"Yes you did, you invaded Poland!"

[JohnB]

It's suddenly going all Fawlty Towers...

Don't mention the war!

[RGR]

[quote="MacG"]]

[RGR]

dup

[WolfattheDoor]

It's all reminiscent of WW2 where they ignored Hitler until the bombs started falling.

It was the UK that declared war first.

I was referring to the Spanish Civil War which was where politicians began to sit up and take notice.

[Andy Hunt]

]

People without knowledge about the basics of spectroscopy tend to have difficulties understanding things like absorption bands. Usually don't stop them from being "climate experts" though...

Hey! I say stuff like that about Peakers! This is my line...no copycatting!