Update on Dec 3rd Demos

calvin.jones · Post by **calvin.jones** » 04 Dec 2005, 13:16

Images of the international demos can be found at:

http://forum.campaigncc.org/?q=image/tid/27

Images, Audio and Video Clips of the Edinburgh Demo Can be found at:

http://climatechangecampaign.blogspot.com

PowerSwitchJames · Post by **PowerSwitchJames** » 04 Dec 2005, 18:29

This image is on Euronews. Underneath the 'N' on the big white banner is Chris Newman (beard) and behind him, with half a face showing, is me.

Click here

oobers · Post by **oobers** » 05 Dec 2005, 16:22

Have to admit I am a bit shy and retiring when it comes to activism and this London CC event was the first demo I have ever done in my 32 years on earth! Still I think PO and CC are becoming so threatening that I can't just take a back seat any more.

Went with my local FoE group and they were disappointed by turnout. I was more disappointed that there were so many different messages on indecipherable placards. Surely we need a co-ordinated approach to such events with one clear message. I saw shoppers standing on the pavement watching a couple of thousand people walk down the road and their faces had 'so what are they protesting about?' written all over.

Am I missing the point?

PowerSwitchJames · Post by **PowerSwitchJames** » 05 Dec 2005, 16:29

The Socialist Worker seemed very keen on taking over the event. It seemed to be 30% Socialist Worker! I agree, plenty of mixed messages BUT the key part is how it is reported to the rest of the world and how it seeps into the general consciousness and I think the message was pretty clear - cut the carbon.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 06 Dec 2005, 00:06

oobers wrote: Am I missing the point?

Demos never seem to work whatever the message. You either have a multitude of individual messages that no-one can follow, or a single message that's easily dismissed, or the whole thing gets taken over by the SWP with their cultish slogans. And if a movement ever looks like it might get some traction with the powers that be, you can be sure some violent element will jump into the fray and allow everyone in authority to dismiss the whole crowd as thugs & anarchists with nothing to contribute. Before you know it you're all Section 60'd and spending 10 hours surrounded by police vans without food, drink or access to relief...

Okay yes I'm slightly cynical about the effectiveness of protest marches. Better off talking to John Hemming MP I think.

Winged Energy of Delight · Post by **Winged Energy of Delight** » 06 Dec 2005, 09:08

I'd be wary of being so cynical. History intertwines with myriad forms of protest; some have been ineffectual, some have been incredibly effectual. Recent cataclysmic political changes in Ukraine...Georgia...Kyrgyzstan...have been catalysed by masses of people from all walks of life storming the streets - sometimes organised, sometimes spontaneous. It is frustrating reality, but an understandable one, that people are often only listened to as the collective.
Messages may get confused, the media may report the march in a misjudged manner, the march may not translate into practical and positive procedure. But as a metaphor for hope, there is something startlingly beautiful about - peaceful, non-violent - mass movement that I refuse to get cynical about.
There's already so much about life to feel cut off from, hopeless about, futile when faced with - I would rather retain self-delusion and hope for the best, and hope that Governments may one day listen. And keep walking for something before my feet take stagnant root in the ground.

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 06 Dec 2005, 09:44

Winged Energy of Delight wrote:I'd be wary of being so cynical. History intertwines with myriad forms of protest; some have been ineffectual, some have been incredibly effectual. Recent cataclysmic political changes in Ukraine...Georgia...Kyrgyzstan...have been catalysed by masses of people from all walks of life storming the streets - sometimes organised, sometimes spontaneous. It is frustrating reality, but an understandable one, that people are often only listened to as the collective.
Messages may get confused, the media may report the march in a misjudged manner, the march may not translate into practical and positive procedure. But as a metaphor for hope, there is something startlingly beautiful about - peaceful, non-violent - mass movement that I refuse to get cynical about.
There's already so much about life to feel cut off from, hopeless about, futile when faced with - I would rather retain self-delusion and hope for the best, and hope that Governments may one day listen. And keep walking for something before my feet take stagnant root in the ground.

Sad thing about mass movements is that they are very easy to corrupt and manipulate. There are rumors that the Ukrainian and Georgian movements had a little help from western government agencies, which would not be surprising. Also, you can expect ANY mass movement of significance to get infiltrated by government agencies. If you are reasonable and have a just cause, dont be surprised if people you have never seen before show up on demonstrations, rioting and throwing stones, turning away public support. There are suspicions that a lot of violence in recent anti-globalisation demonstrations has been the work of "agent provocateurs". If you go for a violent movement on the other hand, expect the infiltrators to be the most violent ones volountering to get the explosives...

The only thing which has worked in real life are changes in "zeitgeist" affecting voter preferences.