Saudi oil tanker captured by Pirates

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 21 Nov 2008, 22:02

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7740417.stmMake you go hmmm...

Filter Feeder · Post by **Filter Feeder** » 21 Nov 2008, 22:12

Good find.

That country has been raped by the industrialised world for as long as anyone can remember, as has much of Africa. And when they fight back there's all this moral outrage about them capturing "our" ships.

It's so hypocritical it makes me want to puke

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 23 Nov 2008, 11:29

Umm ... they are in fact 'our' ships ... they are certainly NOT the property of a gang of young Somalian thugs.

This book could be prove useful ...

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 23 Nov 2008, 12:44

skeptik wrote:All it would take to deter any pirates is a guy in a golf cart patrolling the railings, with a heavy duty machine gun and a bag of RPG's.

That's a hilarious image. A golf cart rolling along a deck as the recoil from a heavy machine gun spins it round.

"Halt or we'll fire!"
"Go on then. We'd love to see you try."

Or crew trying to protect their cargo of oil using an RPG...

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 23 Nov 2008, 15:06

contadino wrote:
skeptik wrote:All it would take to deter any pirates is a guy in a golf cart patrolling the railings, with a heavy duty machine gun and a bag of RPG's.
That's a hilarious image. A golf cart rolling along a deck as the recoil from a heavy machine gun spins it round.

"Halt or we'll fire!"
"Go on then. We'd love to see you try."

Or crew trying to protect their cargo of oil using an RPG...

No no no... the golf buggy (or any other small vehicle, motorbikes would do) is just for getting up and down the length of a supertanker. You'd clamp your machine gun to the railing, or have gun mounting points pre-installed all round the ship.

RPGs are also appropriate...certainly enough to scare off the average pirate in a small boat. Some have been seen off with fire hoses, when the crew has spotted them coming and had time to get ready. The main thing is to spot them coming. half a dozen video cameras, fore, aft, port and starboard linked to the bridge, plus 3 guys with weapons training ready to respond at a moments notice when the ship is in pirate infested waters. It's not rocket science.

More than adequate. Royal Marine Commandos with heavy machine gun. Who would you bet on - an ex military guy with one of these on a *very* stable firing platform provided by a supertanker, or the guys down below bobbing about in a small boat?

Deck of an oil supertanker. Note ramps for bicycle, scooter access fore and aft over deck pipework, and side railings to prevent loose items & loose crew from falling overboard.

Seeing off unwanted guests in the 16th century - the breach loading rail mounted swivel gun. Usually loaded with grapeshot for repelling boarders at close range, here shown loaded with a small cannon ball. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swivel_gun

Filter Feeder · Post by **Filter Feeder** » 23 Nov 2008, 17:48

Vortex wrote:Umm ... they are in fact 'our' ships ... they are certainly NOT the property of a gang of young Somalian thugs.

[condescension]This book could be prove useful ...[/condescension]

They are not my ships, and I don't believe they are yours either - unless you are perhaps a Saudi oil baron? A Greek shipping Magnate? No, I thought not...

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 25 Nov 2008, 10:15

Filter Feeder wrote:
Vortex wrote:Umm ... they are in fact 'our' ships ... they are certainly NOT the property of a gang of young Somalian thugs.

[condescension]This book could be prove useful ...[/condescension]
They are not my ships, and I don't believe they are yours either - unless you are perhaps a Saudi oil baron? A Greek shipping Magnate? No, I thought not...

By 'our' I clearly meant 'the Western world' or 'the civilised world' i.e. not a failed state such as Somalia.

Anyway, must dash: I need to go off for a bit of self-flagellation because of the heavy guilts I bear.

"Take that you bastard for the Battle Of Rorkes Drift.
And THAT's for your forbears involvement in slavery.
And THAT's for the British Civil war.
And THAT's for the white git who invented dynamite.
And THAT's for being a member of a society which invented the Pot Noodle.
And THAT's for your inherited blame for wiping out those nice Neanderthals."

Filter Feeder · Post by **Filter Feeder** » 25 Nov 2008, 10:54

You don't half project a load of BS on people you don't agree with - it's almost passive aggressive

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 25 Nov 2008, 11:41

"passive agressive" ... I had to look that up!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-ag ... e_behavior

Nope, that's the wrong definition. Pain-in-the-arse aggressive maybe.

I simply responded in a crisp manner to the 'Sins Of Our Fathers' tone of your earlier post.

Filter Feeder · Post by **Filter Feeder** » 25 Nov 2008, 12:02

Vortex wrote:I simply responded in a crisp manner to the 'Sins Of Our Fathers' tone of your earlier post.

I disagree - you projected all your hatreds, fears and bullshit onto me. You suggested I am lacking in critical thinking skills and that I am somehow masochistic. None of these accusations ring true for me, and I do not believe that I have provided you with any evidence to allow you to make these assertions about me. Neither do I find your accusations particularly "crisp".

On the contrary, my viewpoint is highly objective. I do not engage in tribal fantasies of "them" and "us". I just see us all as human beings with our own individual motives, needs and beliefs. The constant dehumanisation of people and peoples across the world who not fit within the cultural terms of the industrialised west is in my opinion reflective of gross stupidity and weakness of mind. The stupidity of not being able to look beyond one's own nose, the weakness of being empathically disabled, the sheep like nature of people lead by the mass media who constantly lap up the spin and lies which are promoted without question. So - Pirates stealing "our" ships = "bad". The destruction of "their" fisheries and the dumping of toxic waste on "their" countries = "business as usual".

One rule for us, another rule for them. This is the MO of the bully, the standover guy, the oppressor, the facist. None of these qualities impress me. You don't impress me.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 25 Nov 2008, 12:17

FWIW I think those pirates are providing a useful service in that their enterprising activities

are alerting us to the sheer untenable silliness of our situation. Any military soul would balk at the stupidity of having supply-lines that long (and that thin) for basic necessities.

They would of course be providing an even more useful service if their ill-gotten gains went to healthcare and education, but I suspect that what's not spent on military hardware is spent on spreading AIDS.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 25 Nov 2008, 13:05

Filter Feeder, we seem to have rather different world views.

I am a realist, you may be an idealist.

I recognise that we still live in a tribally structured society where the individual is simply a cell or cog performing some service to a larger organism.

I am 'of' the 'Western' tribe and I have no great desire to be part of the 'Somali pirate' tribe.

I want to support my tribe ... it's a genetic/evolutionary thing ... so of course I would like the Somali pirates to be chastised.

All life - including human life - is a continuing evolutionary battle.
'Equality' and 'niceness' aren't usually a part of that.

On top of that, piracy IS intrinsically bad, whether carried out by Somalis or the French. No amount of hand wring about waste dumping changes that.

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 25 Nov 2008, 13:38

The idea of piracy is very romantic. The story of Dr Syn who was Captain Clegg the murderous pirate, then the kind Vicar of Dymchurch and the ruthless smuggler The Scarecrow at the same time, is a great story. And Robin Hood was a land based pirate. They both killed and maimed "the baddies" and cared for "the goodies" so were great guys, and one of "us". I'm not sure the Somali pirates have such noble aims, and may be more motivated by big cars, guns and women, but even if they were doing it for the benefit of the local people, they would be seen as the baddies from "us" on the receiving end.

I think the legalised piracy that "our" governments have committed over the centuries far outweighs the efforts of all the private enterprise versions though. Whether we like it or not, we've all benefited from it individually too.

Billhook · Post by **Billhook** » 25 Nov 2008, 13:47

Given the key role of piracy in the UK's rise to international power,
particularly in the origins of our maritime power that permitted the launch of empire,
which has since served this so-called western "tribe" so well,
just how can piracy be intrinsically bad, any more than the reactionary outlook that drives it ?

Regards,

Billhook

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 25 Nov 2008, 13:58

Privateers. State-sponsored piracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privateers

Vortex, you're being a little 'holier than thou.'

"Be the change you want to see."