Andy Hunt wrote:There seem to be a lot of jigsaw pieces coming together at the minute, starting to form a recognisable picture.
- Repeated warnings from industry think tanks about forthcoming oil, gas and electricity supply shortages
- A global financial crisis
- New anti-terrorist legislation which can be used for social control
- New Planning legislation removing local influence over major infrastructure decisions
- Big energy companies pulling out of CCS pilot projects and offshore wind
- A new generation of nuclear power stations on the table
- Increasing activism around climate change including warnings of 'eco-terrorism'
Could it be that we are on the verge of an across-the-board relaxation and repeal of environmental and climate change legislation, in the interests of 'keeping the lights on'? After all, this Government has made it quite clear what the priority is?
So 'tree huggers' are now the enemies of onshore wind power, which is now being deployed primarily because it is an energy source, not because it is a low-carbon energy source. We are looking at wind farms on every available hilltop, subsidised by the taxpayer if necessary, along with the same arrangement for nuclear power plants AND a new wave of traditional 'dirty coal' plants.
The renewables simply become yet another source of energy, deployed alongside, not instead of, fossil fuel and nuclear power. Local objection to wind farms will be crushed, as will objections to new nukes AND new 'dirty coal'.
Press reports of climate change disasters will be suppressed, as will reports of power cuts, riots, famines, governments being toppled, and whatever else the Government thinks might panic the 'Sheeple'.
What do we think?
I've always thought that wind power would have its Poulsons, Pottingers and T. Dan Smiths acting in the name of progress and sweeping away the more 'unenlightened' parts of urban [translate to rural] society.
Meet NewLabour -- same as OldLabour. [The oil thieves]
And the latest from the 'Scotsman' is that the Calman review of Scottish Parliament powers far from enhancing them will seek to remove the annoying"NIMBY" block on nuclear power stations north of the border.
Give me a place to stand on and I will move the Earth.
biffvernon wrote:Well, I think we just muddle along from one cock-up to the next and there is no conspiracy.
I agree! A very British way of doing things.
Arguably the second world war could have been seen as a series of cock-ups, but as that debarcle showed, with persistance and a firm direction, a goal can be acheived via a series of cock-ups! It is the goal of continuous economic growth and the dogged persistance of persuit that negate the need for any conspiracy here. This economic growth aim underlies every facet of our society, including but not limited to our system of money creation, trade, business, goverment and law. Our society will likely prioritise its 'survival' above all else. i.e. we will invite the four horsemen over the threshold if they promise us return to growth.
Jim
For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.
"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
SunnyJim wrote:This economic growth aim underlies every facet of our society, including but not limited to our system of money creation, trade, business, goverment and law.
Of course it does! There was no other way! Pure Darwinian principles at work.
When increased consumption is possible, someone will discover it and become prosperous. Those who fail to take part in the increased consumption will feel miserable and be marginalized. If you want to see some modesty, go no further than Albania, Romania or Bulgaria. And why does the Chinese work so hard? My guess is that they want to increase their consumption, because that makes them feel so much better!
When increased consumption is no longer physically possible, the very same Darwinian principles change face without prior warning, and suddenly start to reward frugality. Very simple.
I agree with you as ever MacG, but I belive that our society has inertia and momentum built into it.... it will take time to change.
The 'system' will fight to stay alive... the structures, the emergent properties of the society we have created must be broken down, and that will not be a quick process. The system will fight against the natural way of things (the darwinian favoritism) to preserve itself. A judge only knows how to be a judge. A buisness man thinks in terms of profits, these things will not change quickly. A banker expects interest. The rule of law protects wealth and possession, and enforces the entitlement of banks to charge compound interest on debt.
We have to change the very core, the fabric of our society! That is not going to be an easy gig man! Even harder when you think that it is the growth and the charging or interest by the west that has enabled us to live the way we have. Without that life will be very different for all of us. Well most of us.
Jim
For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.
"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
SunnyJim wrote:I agree with you as ever MacG, but I belive that our society has inertia and momentum built into it.... it will take time to change.
The 'system' will fight to stay alive... the structures, the emergent properties of the society we have created must be broken down, and that will not be a quick process. The system will fight against the natural way of things (the darwinian favoritism) to preserve itself. A judge only knows how to be a judge. A buisness man thinks in terms of profits, these things will not change quickly. A banker expects interest. The rule of law protects wealth and possession, and enforces the entitlement of banks to charge compound interest on debt.
We have to change the very core, the fabric of our society! That is not going to be an easy gig man! Even harder when you think that it is the growth and the charging or interest by the west that has enabled us to live the way we have. Without that life will be very different for all of us. Well most of us.
Ehh, well, yes... Those Darwinian principles can of course be perceived as a bit harsh. At least when we find ourselves at the receiving end of them... But have faith - future historians will not bother very much about our suffering. They may even tell jokes about us.
The expectations of a banker will come to a natural end when the banker does. Very simple, this Darwinian stuff!
skeptik wrote:
Nope. In the age of global travel, global trade, global satellite TV, international telephony and the Internet, covering up large events is not possible. Word always gets out. The UK is too 'connected' to allow for effective censorship. The best any govt. can do these days is to apply spin.
We may or may not still have a functioning internet, but I can see it becoming as controlled or monitored as it is in China or Burma. You may still be able to discover the truth, but you will be running huge risks...
skeptik wrote:
We may or may not still have a functioning internet, but I can see it becoming as controlled or monitored as it is in China or Burma. You may still be able to discover the truth, but you will be running huge risks...
with respect trying to make the connection beteen what happens in a tinpot dictatorship and advanced western countires is not logical at best and scare mongering at worst, I see no evidence that in the broader scheme of things that civil liberties are being ripped apart. To be sure active citizens should always be on their guard
skeptik wrote:
We may or may not still have a functioning internet, but I can see it becoming as controlled or monitored as it is in China or Burma. You may still be able to discover the truth, but you will be running huge risks...
with respect trying to make the connection beteen what happens in a tinpot dictatorship and advanced western countires is not logical at best and scare mongering at worst, I see no evidence that in the broader scheme of things that civil liberties are being ripped apart. To be sure active citizens should always be on their guard
You sure you're not seeing it from the relatively benign environment of Ireland? I dislike what I know about the English environment more and more as time goes by. We appear to have far greater civil liberties here.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
The link was to events in Burma. It could just as easily be to events in China. They are not a tin pot country. In this country, we narrowly avoided 42 days detention without charge, and I am sure the government will try again. The prime driver for the 42 days was tracking internet and computer activity. We already have monitoring and bugging rules that follow tens of thousands of people every year. Car tracking cameras are being installed nationwide that WILL track every car for every journey it takes, and store that data for years. The government wants a central database of every mobile phone call log and email log in the country, again kept for years.
Then there are ID cards, and more importantly the underlying database.
The police DNA database is a national DNA database in all but name. There are enough samples in it already to trace almost any UK DNA sample by partial matching to relatives already in the database.
We are living in a surveillance society that must make any dictatorship green with envy. All we lack now is the fear of authority which enforces self-censorship and shopping by snooping neighbours of any 'undesirable' activity by you. Already unconfirmed rumours of unacceptable activity with children are more than enough to destroy your career due to police reports being available to potential employers.
We will know we are in trouble when people start disapearing for weeks or months at a time, and then come back refusing to talk and looking grey and thin - if they come back at all. You won't read anything about it on line.
[quote="emordnilap] You sure you're not seeing it from the relatively benign environment of Ireland? I dislike what I know about the English environment more and more as time goes by. We appear to have far greater civil liberties here.[/quote]
Possibly in the sense that the state here is a lot less in your face then in the UK or US, but I know Germany quite well and cant say I see a rollback or the start of a major rollback in privacy, right to free speech etc.
In the UK the individual can protest etc ... as long as they don't have a chance of changing anything!
The authorities put up with protests to Downing Street etc because they know that they have no effect.
However as soon as you are seen to have any chance of disrupting a national/local government project or the activities of a big firm, you get squished.
I speak from experience!
I have always said that in the UK you can aspire to a house and a Ford Escort and a week in Majorca every year ... because these are items which will lock you into the workplace.
However if you try to drop out or avoid The System then you are in trouble.
Council and land taxes are the way to block this: you can't go off grid and live off a few chickens and a veggie patch if you have to find X $1000s in taxes every year. You need to get a job!
emordnilap wrote: You sure you're not seeing it from the relatively benign environment of Ireland? I dislike what I know about the English environment more and more as time goes by. We appear to have far greater civil liberties here.
Possibly in the sense that the state here is a lot less in your face then in the UK or US, but I know Germany quite well and cant say I see a rollback or the start of a major rollback in privacy, right to free speech etc.
I hardly know Germany and only a few Germans, so I bow to your better experience. That said and speaking purely subjectively of course, I'd think the Germans would be less willing to give up their freedoms than other nations, no? The Brits seem to take what's thrown at them, for the most part.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
