Forget electric ferncing on remote land.

[emordnilap]

"But the shepherds won't be allowed to live on the land on which the sheep they're protecting are situated."

They won't be living on the land. They'll be working on it.

[Blue Peter]

"But the shepherds won't be allowed to live on the land on which the sheep they're protecting are situated."

They won't be living on the land. They'll be working on it.

Doesn't make a difference, I'm afraid.


Peter.

[emordnilap]

What doesn't? I cycle to work. I don't live there.

[Blue Peter]

What doesn't? I cycle to work. I don't live there.

Sorry, I thought that you were using that as a justification for the shepherds living on the land. In truth, it would make some difference, because one aspect of getting planning permission to live on some land is if you can show that it is necessary for you to live on the land to do your job; and looking after livestock is one of the accepted reasons for needing to live on the land.

However, with John's scenario, it seemed like the shepherd would be brining the flock in at night, and presumably the farmer would be resident to look after them then,


Peter.

[Billhook]

The only way that most people who want to start working the land will acquire acres adjacent to their dwellings
is to participate in a largish farm either as 'subdividers' (which is a quick route to an impoverished ghetto IMHO)
or as commoners in a joint effort with "common but differentiated responsibilities."

I.e., the person most skilled with pigs looks after the main herd, and if others want to help with that
as a major time input, that's fine. If not, then there's less labour to look after pigs, so fewer can be kept.

[Please note: this approach ain't immutable: if there are better ways to manage livestock-in-common,
then I'd be glad to hear them].

With regard to this thread's focus on security, I think the location is critical -
not the proximity to the owner's dwelling
Sub-ruria, which is what much of southern Britain has been degraded to,
is not a place where theft is exceptional or regularly prevented by public intervention..

By contrast, here in rural Wales, a quadbike being stolen from 40 miles away
is a major item both in local chat and in the county press.
People here still don't keep their doors locked when at home, and many don't when going out.

But this is a rather "remote" area, where neighbours are keenly alert for local welfare..

AFAICS, this cultural wealth makes the area far better placed to endure the coming changes
than many more accessible "modern" communities.

Regards,

Billhook


Edit PS: The issue of claiming a need to live on the holding to care for livestock
is not a simple route to planning consent;
the need is subjected to a rigorous test of economic viability by the planning authorities -
the recognized threshold for hill sheep farming viability is somewhere below 2,000 acres . . . . .

[Bandidoz]

I was in the local farm suppliers yesterday asking if they had any security cages etc to help prevent electric fence energisers being nicked.

Recently we had our shipping container broken into. There was a beefy mechanism holding the locking rods in place. They must have used a circular saw on the locking rods - so now the door can't even be shut properly! Just goes to show they'll go for the weakest link. Nothing was taken, though.

Vortex - perhaps you need a radar hooked up to a semi-automatic paintball gun

[JohnB]

"But the shepherds won't be allowed to live on the land on which the sheep they're protecting are situated."

They won't be living on the land. They'll be working on it.

9 to 5, Monday to Friday, maximum 48 hours a week. So that's 3 shepherds working 8 hour shifts. How much money is there in sheep? Living on the land there would be a full time presence to deter trouble.

[Billhook]

John,

just for the record, the shortage of labour round here is so severe that most shepherds
don't work a 48 hr week ---
we work all daylight and a bit more in winter, and 10 to 15 hr days in summer,
and for many that's 7 days per week.

Which needs balancing by remarking both the subtle and the potent joys of a rural way of life.

Regards,

Billhook

[zigspider]

I was in the local farm suppliers yesterday asking if they had any security cages etc to help prevent electric fence energisers being nicked.

Recently we had our shipping container broken into. There was a beefy mechanism holding the locking rods in place. They must have used a circular saw on the locking rods - so now the door can't even be shut properly! Just goes to show they'll go for the weakest link. Nothing was taken, though.

Vortex - perhaps you need a radar hooked up to a semi-automatic paintball gun

What you need is one of these

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?q=pa ... mb=0&aq=f#

[Vortex]

Hmm ... the MOD will be loading those with more than paint ....

[OrraLoon]

What doesn't? I cycle to work. I don't live there.

Sorry, I thought that you were using that as a justification for the shepherds living on the land. In truth, it would make some difference, because one aspect of getting planning permission to live on some land is if you can show that it is necessary for you to live on the land to do your job; and looking after livestock is one of the accepted reasons for needing to live on the land.

However, with John's scenario, it seemed like the shepherd would be brining the flock in at night, and presumably the farmer would be resident to look after them then,


Peter.

Lateral thinking suggests a redeployment of sheepleherds.

[JohnB]

Lateral thinking suggests a redeployment of sheepleherds.

Maybe I could train my collie as sheepledog. He'd be useless at rounding up sheep, but he does cute so well that he's always getting people to stop what they're doing to make a fuss of him

[RenewableCandy]

Lateral thinking suggests a redeployment of sheepleherds.

Maybe I could train my collie as sheepledog. He'd be useless at rounding up sheep, but he does cute so well that he's always getting people to stop what they're doing to make a fuss of him

Perhaps you could use him as an advert for saving energy or growing own food or some other aspect of PO awareness...

[JohnB]

Perhaps you could use him as an advert for saving energy or growing own food or some other aspect of PO awareness...

Nah, that would be useful. He doesn't do useful, he's a complete waste of space.

[emordnilap]

"But the shepherds won't be allowed to live on the land on which the sheep they're protecting are situated."

They won't be living on the land. They'll be working on it.

9 to 5, Monday to Friday, maximum 48 hours a week. So that's 3 shepherds working 8 hour shifts. How much money is there in sheep?

Aah, a metaphor for yet another aspect of our topsy-turvy world. The world wants <insert whatever here> but is not prepared to pay the full cost. A whole 'nuther discussion.

As for living on the land and providing a 24-hour presence, fewer and fewer people are prepared to do that. They are a breed apart, these farmers. Round here, at least, the gene pool's shrinking.