Forget electric ferncing on remote land.

[Vortex]

I was in the local farm suppliers yesterday asking if they had any security cages etc to help prevent electric fence energisers being nicked.

The customer next to be suddenly got started:

- they had their first electric fence stolen
- their second was surround by spikes and razor wire ... stolen
- their third was in a metal box plus 6 foot ground anchor ... stolen
- their fourth was in a concrete chamber ... stolen
- their fifth was in a large concrete cube ... NOT stolen ... but DESTROYED by the thieves in a fit of pique

So now they just use standard low-value fixed fences.

They have also had their storage barn raided five times.
Latterly they have only had jumble-sale quality seats etc in there ... but nevertheless the whole place has been cleared.

Because of this feedback, my wife & I have decided not to replace our stolen electric fence.

As a local friend says, even if it takes an hour or two to nick something which can then be sold in a boot sale for £50, that still works out at £20 or per hour pay ... untaxed!

The police are hopeless of course - they won't go near the thieves camps.

Rural crime is quite serious and a total pain in the arse.

[adam2]

What about enclosing the fence energiser in one of the strong steel boxes as used on building sites for power tools etc.
I have seen these used for fence energisers and also for feed storage as they vermin proof and thief resistant.

Too big and heavy to readily steal, and could be chained to a strong teee etc for additional security.

Something like this
http://www.ccw-tools.com/Sentri/Sentri- ... 587-12548/

[Vortex]

£800??????

Gosh, they would steal the box and dump the energiser!

[snow hope]

What is really needed is a good rifle, or better still a machine gun and the ability to stand guard for a week without needing to sleep! That will soon stop the b*stards.

My office was broken into twice in three weeks and all the computers stolen. We had to put bars on all the easily accessible windows. If they had broken in a third time it would have pushed me over the edge and I think I would have been standing guard.........

I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that we are going to have to deal with these problems all by ourselves, by much stronger means than in the past.

[Vortex]

What is really needed is a good rifle

The snag is that these people are violent and have access to guns.

- A local copper found his Panda car had been ventilated by 9mm bullet holes when he came out of a farm he was visiting.

- A local chap went to a camp to complain about something - and had a rifle bullet go through his windows as he drove away.

- The local police told local shopkeepers that if they valued their safety they must NOT to interfere with any burglary etc

You simply don't want to mess with people like this.

The police do eff all - so you have to smile sweetly ... with gritted teeth.

[adam2]

The fact that these travellers camps appear to be beyond the law is most worrying.
Firing on a police car should be treated very seriously indeed, with a prompt, large scale armed response, but I bet it wont be.
If a normal person uses or owns a firearm without the required license, this is a serious offence likely to result in a prison sentence.
Travellers appear to be expempt though! was the camp searched for the weapon? was anyone arrested? were they imprisioned for unlawfull possesion/use of a gun? (in the unlikely event that a license was held, it is still not permitted to shoot at polic cars or visitors!)

[Vortex]

The fact that these travellers camps appear to be beyond the law is most worrying.

Welcome to the real world.

The BNP and the like must snigger about this sort of thing ... it's ideal recruitment material.

Everyone who has had their garden shed looted, or their garden gates nicked, or 2 tons of shite fly-tipped in their road with no action from the police is a potential BNP voter.

[adam2]

The fact that these travellers camps appear to be beyond the law is most worrying.

Welcome to the real world.

The BNP and the like must snigger about this sort of thing ... it's ideal recruitment material.

Everyone who has had their garden shed looted, or their garden gates nicked, or 2 tons of shite fly-tipped in their road with no action from the police is a potential BNP voter.

And everyone who has been mugged!

Mugging is not regarded as a serious crime and not normally investigated, but in the past it was known as "robbery with violence" for which 7 years was the usuall sentence. If the victim died, then the robber could be hung, even if they did not intend to cause death.
In my view the police should give far less attention to thieves, burglars and muggers who suffer injury or death as a result of theire actions. Obviously any death of a thief or mugger should be investigated, but IMHO this "investigation" should consist of sending a standard letter.

"dear sir/madam we are sorry to hear that you/a member of your family/a member of your household have recently been a victim of crime.
Unfortunatly it has not been possible to trace the person(s) believed to be responsible.
In the event that additional evidence comes to light the case will be re-opened.
Thankyou for contacting us about this. We enclose some crime prevention leaflets for your information"

That is all the investigation that most robberies get, so whats the problem?

[contadino]

But surely common sense would tell you that livestock in unattended rural locations are likely to get taken, either by predators or by thieves? So why would you even consider putting an electric fence there in the first place?

[snow hope]

What is really needed is a good rifle

The snag is that these people are violent and have access to guns.

- A local copper found his Panda car had been ventilated by 9mm bullet holes when he came out of a farm he was visiting.

- A local chap went to a camp to complain about something - and had a rifle bullet go through his windows as he drove away.

- The local police told local shopkeepers that if they valued their safety they must NOT to interfere with any burglary etc

You simply don't want to mess with people like this.

The police do eff all - so you have to smile sweetly ... with gritted teeth.

Well we do have a choice. We can either be a society that accepts the above crap, which I suggest is what we have done for the last 50 odd years, or we can decide that we aren't going to stand up for this kind of crap any longer. I feel we are and will continue to move (more swiftly now) to the latter. I know I am moving that way in my views and opinions.

[Ludwig]

Well we do have a choice. We can either be a society that accepts the above crap, which I suggest is what we have done for the last 50 odd years, or we can decide that we aren't going to stand up for this kind of crap any longer. I feel we are and will continue to move (more swiftly now) to the latter. I know I am moving that way in my views and opinions.

Crime is going to increase massively as unemployment and poverty rise, and police resources aren't going to increase commensurately, although I suspect police powers will.

The police will be stretched to breaking point. I suspect that as things get more desperate, as police powers increase, and as Government oversight diminishes, corruption in the Force will become the norm and it will take on some of the characteristics of the mafia.

So if we're "not going to stand for this kind of crap any longer", the only solution is vigilantism. And as Vortex implies, this is risky because you're liable to descend into a permanent cycle of revenge crimes and ultimately local warfare, where all clear notions of who's right and who's wrong are irrelevant.

God, I'm feeling cheerful today :\

[contadino]

I suspect that as things get more desperate, as police powers increase, and as Government oversight diminishes, corruption in the Force will become the norm and it will take on some of the characteristics of the mafia.

That shows a terrible misunderstanding of mafia. To your average bloke, they are more like a security service for the poor, for when the official police forces lose interest.

[Vortex]

But surely common sense would tell you that livestock in unattended rural locations are likely to get taken, either by predators or by thieves? So why would you even consider putting an electric fence there in the first place?

.. because we are (supposed to) live in a civilised society.

Should we expect unattended street lamps, cars, sheep, fence posts, turf, fuel etc to be stolen simply because we aren't there?

In modern society the VICTIM is now the guilty person.

Pc Plod: "But you only have 3 bolts on your front door Sir. Just asking for trouble. Here's your Crime Number. Can't stay - I have a MultiCultural Awareness course to attend today"

[contadino]

Should we expect unattended street lamps, cars, sheep, fence posts, turf, fuel etc to be stolen simply because we aren't there?

Yes. You should expect them to get stolen. Crime prevention is your responsibility, not solely the polices. Leaving your valuables unattended is as stupid today as it was in the middle ages.

I don't know where you have got your definition of civilisation from. What suddenly changed in the last, say, 100 years to make the world a supposed crime-free utopia?

[Catweazle]

The police are disinterested, alarms go largely ignored and there is a ready market for stolen stuff on eBay or in the local boot fair.

My solution is physical security and two Dobermans. I hope the thieving scum value their limbs and go somewhere else.