Britain set to lose nearly half its electricity in 6 years

[skeptik]

A question for you guys if you dont mind

What are the options for rationing electricity when the time comes?

Are there options?

Rolling blackouts, as in the seventies. Everybody takes their turn to be cutoff, except for the emergency services and certain large industrial users who cant be shut down without sustaining severe damage.

Investment opportunity: Go long candles, tilley and hurricane lamps, camping gas, wind up and rechargeable torches.

[Vortex]

A question for you guys if you dont mind

What are the options for rationing electricity when the time comes?

Are there options?

Rolling blackouts, as in the seventies. Everybody takes their turn to be cutoff.

Investment opportunity: Go long candles, tilley and hurricane lamps, camping gas, wind up and rechargeable torches.

... and jemmies, balaclavas ...

[RenewableCandy]

A question for you guys if you dont mind

What are the options for rationing electricity when the time comes?

Are there options?

Rolling blackouts, as in the seventies. Everybody takes their turn to be cutoff.

Investment opportunity: Go long candles, tilley and hurricane lamps, camping gas, wind up and rechargeable torches.

... and jemmies, balaclavas ...

Everybody knows that today's burglars are a bunch of softies and afraid of the dark (Security advice from Haggis).

[kenneal - lagger]

Just another little problem to add to things. According to this the country will be stoney broke because of the costs of importing fuel.

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4188

[peaky2]

A question for you guys if you dont mind

What are the options for rationing electricity when the time comes?

Are there options?

Rolling blackouts, as in the seventies. Everybody takes their turn to be cutoff, except for the emergency services and certain large industrial users who cant be shut down without sustaining severe damage.

I was thinking about this last night. I was in my teens then and the hotel in which I grew up was often dark and lit by candles. Us kids thought it was really exciting. Of course, last night I realised then that our hotel, with a 50/60 seater restaurant and as many bedrooms, 2 bars, lounge and stuff had not one single computer. Neither did I at home. Or my friends. Or any of the shops in town (with the possible exception of our local Barclays branch). I can't imagine what effects rolling blackouts would have on us today

[adam2]

I was thinking about this last night. I was in my teens then and the hotel in which I grew up was often dark and lit by candles. Us kids thought it was really exciting. Of course, last night I realised then that our hotel, with a 50/60 seater restaurant and as many bedrooms, 2 bars, lounge and stuff had not one single computer. Neither did I at home. Or my friends. Or any of the shops in town (with the possible exception of our local Barclays branch). I can't imagine what effects rolling blackouts would have on us today

It would indeed be potentialy much worse apart from the lack of electric light, consider the following in a medium size hotel.

Emergency lighting should already be installed, and should run for three hours, but takes from 14 hours upwards to recharge, Therefore the health and safety police could argue that the premises should be evacuated until the batteries have recharged.

Is emergency lighting installed in hotel bedrooms? If yes, it wont be very popular if the power fails during sleeping hours and wakes everyone up!
If no, possibly dangerous from use of candles or trips and falls.

Fire alarm, this should have battery backup, but most dont work.

Keyless door locks, in case of power failure will the doors lock? (very dangerous in case of fire) or will they unlock? (not very reassuring for a lady alone in a hotel room)
If a new guest checks in during a powercut, can they be given a room, or is power required to programe a door card?

If a guest wishes to check out in a power cut, can the bill be prepared, including any bar bills or room service?

What about disabled guests, who gained access to the upper floors via an electric lift, and wish to get down again in a power cut?

Internal and extension phones wont work in a power cut, unless working batteries are instaled which is rare.

Food hygeine, will food in fridges still cold be enough, or will it all have to be discarded?

Cooking is often by gas, but remember many modern gas cooking appliances require electricity as well, and is the kitchen useable without electric light and ventilation? will the health and safety police allow this?

Will the bar still be open? electric beer pumps and cash tills? Is CCTV surveilance a condition of the licence?
Drunkeness, darkness and candles is a bad mixture, but guests would probably be upset if the bar closed.

And what about electric toilets? these are often added to hotel rooms that previosly had no ensuite facilities, if used in a power cut, the waste remains in the pan. If flushed a second time (which is what most people try) then the waste overflows onto the floor.

[clv101]

All good points Adam. It's clear that today modern society can't cope with power outages anywhere like as well as that of 30+ years ago. Several hours of power cut today means several hours of doing very little.

This is a critical problem that needs to be addressed - we need to find ways of maintaining as much utility during power cuts of several hours.

[Vortex]

Several hours of power cut today means several hours of doing very little.

.. except for my office which is the only one on our Business Park which stays running during power cuts, thanks to invertors and leisure batteries.

Just as well, as many of my customers travel long distances to reach me and so would be hacked off finding my office out of action!

[adam2]

All good points Adam. It's clear that today modern society can't cope with power outages anywhere like as well as that of 30+ years ago. Several hours of power cut today means several hours of doing very little.

This is a critical problem that needs to be addressed - we need to find ways of maintaining as much utility during power cuts of several hours.

True, all but the very simplest/smallest/low tech bussineses should install a backup power source.
This may take the form of battery power or a generator.

As a very rough guide battery power tends to be viable up to about 500 or 1,000 watts, with a generator often more viable for loads over about 500 or 1,000 watts.
Much depends on whether a short break whilst waiting for an engine to start is acceptable or not.

Batteries should be regulary tested, and replaced if found to be lacking.

Ample fuel should be kept for a generator, this in effect means that a diesel is required since only small amounts of petrol may be lawfully stored.

[biffvernon]

Will the bar still be open? electric beer pumps?

This is the main problem. Never stay in a hotel where the beer is electrically pumped, power cuts expected or not.

[skeptik]

Never stay in a hotel where the beer is electrically pumped, power cuts expected or not.

Excellent advice! On reading the subsequent posts, I would add those companies which make uninterruptible power supplies for PC's to my investment list.

[peaky2]

True, all but the very simplest/smallest/low tech bussineses should install a backup power source.
This may take the form of battery power or a generator.

But how well do they deal with your power being off for 8 hours or a day? And how many businesses do you know (apart from really large ones) that do? I used to work for a reasonably sized (120 people) software company and we had a couple of UPSs for the servers but as for all those PCs on 120 desks, no way Or the office lighting. Or the lift. Or the photocopiers and fax.

Will there suddenly be a rush on the things? Could the market supply? Would people be stealing fuel from backup generators as they are from farms at present? So many questions ...

[adam2]

True, all but the very simplest/smallest/low tech bussineses should install a backup power source.
This may take the form of battery power or a generator.

But how well do they deal with your power being off for 8 hours or a day? And how many businesses do you know (apart from really large ones) that do? I used to work for a reasonably sized (120 people) software company and we had a couple of UPSs for the servers but as for all those PCs on 120 desks, no way Or the office lighting. Or the lift. Or the photocopiers and fax.

Will there suddenly be a rush on the things? Could the market supply? Would people be stealing fuel from backup generators as they are from farms at present? So many questions ...

Most UPS units are installed either to bridge brief interuptions until a generator starts, or to allow an orderly shutdown of servers etc, in order to avoid damage or loss of data.

Most off the shelf UPS units have a run time of from 5 minutes up to about 30 minutes, this can be extended as desired by reducing the load or adding extra batteries.
Unless the load is very small, a run time of 8 hours although entirely possible, is not really practicle due to the great weight, cost and bulk of the battery.

The run time of a generator should be almost unlimited, given sufficient fuel.
On the better designs of large generator, the fuel, oil and air filters are duplicated in order that they may be cleaned/replaced without stopping the engine.
Some engines have to be stopped in order to check the lubricant level, in others this may be done with the engine running.
In practice however most standby generators are incorrectly installed, seldom tested, never serviced, and have only a small supply of fuel.
I have limited faith in most standby generators even starting, let alone running for 8 hours!

Some buildings have a generator able to supply the entire load, in order that work may continue as normal.
It is more usuall though only to feed essiential loads, such as decorative lighting in reception, the chairmans office, the directors dining room etc.

In event of regular power cuts I forsee not only a run on generators and UPS units but also on batteries (generator starter batteries, UPS batteries, emergency lighting batteries, and leisure batteries for domestic standby lighting)

Theft of fuel from standby generators is already a problem, a large well known department store recently lost a tank full. The thieves arrived in a road tanker and stated that they were delivering fuel, in fact they pumped it out. Hired tanker, false number plates.

[peaky2]

Theft of fuel from standby generators is already a problem, a large well known department store recently lost a tank full. The thieves arrived in a road tanker and stated that they were delivering fuel, in fact they pumped it out. Hired tanker, false number plates.

When Rob Hopkins said that we've used huge creativity on the way up the energy curve and there's no reason that it should desert us going down, I doubt that this is what he had in mind

[RenewableCandy]

Theft of fuel from standby generators is already a problem, a large well known department store recently lost a tank full. The thieves arrived in a road tanker and stated that they were delivering fuel, in fact they pumped it out. Hired tanker, false number plates.

When Rob Hopkins said that we've used huge creativity on the way up the energy curve and there's no reason that it should desert us going down, I doubt that this is what he had in mind

Also it says a lot about how businesses are run these days that nobody knew there wans't any fuel delivery due. A lot of businesses lease buildings and, even collectively, couldn't give a stuff about how the building was run as long as everything worked. And of course the business, in a lot of cases, will have employees who (often perfectly justifiably if that loo-break story's owt to go by) couldn't give a stuff about their employer.