Britain set to lose nearly half its electricity in 6 years

[Andy Hunt]

Computer data centres are pretty important these days. Will they try and keep them up and running?

Anyone fancy coming in with me to set up a renewable-powered data centre? I think I'm serious as well!

Now there's an idea!

The trouble with keeping all the servers going, is that they aren't much use if the clients aren't able to access them......due to a blackout with the clients. But of course, if they are geographically disparate then it may well be worthwhile, as they might be unaffected by a blackout at the datacentre location. It would then depend on how well protected the comms. network is from rolling blackouts, etc...... so much dependence and inter-dependence....seems to me that you would have to be very lucky for it all to hang together enough for it to work from a client at one end of the country to the servers at the other end?

What you need is redundancy of potential command . . . a cybernetically configured IT/comms system.

Blimey - I knew that stuff would come in handy at some stage. Now all I have to do is get someone to listen to me.

[peaky2]

Good to see this in the media, sad that they aren't saying anything we haven't been saying for 3 years or so. My 2005 PeakSpeak presentation was on exactly this subject.

Indeed. Fondly remembered

[jmb]

Computer data centres are pretty important these days. Will they try and keep them up and running?

I doubt that computer data centers will get any special treatment, remember that almost every grid district will contain a data center, or a home kidney machine, or a hospital, or something else important.

Data centers SHOULD have both UPS and diesel backup already, [...]

This is from the Telehouse spec for the Docklands facility - which may be the gold standard which other data centres will fail to match:

6 independent 11kv three phase electrical supplies are provided from 3 separate national grid substations. Standby Generation is provided at N+1 redundancy via diesel engine driven generators.

On-site fuel is stored to maintain full load operation for all generator sets for continuous running of 24 hours. Back up deliveries are available from diverse supply depots.

Uninterruptible Power Supply System (UPS) is available to provide N+1 redundancy for critical computer supplies. The UPS can support the facility for 15 minutes at full load, whilst switching to alternate supply, or standby generation start-up/synchronisation takes place.

Now, I don't know how "grid districts" correspond to "grid substations", are these precise and comparable terminology?
-jmb

[kenneal - lagger]

The author of the article, Christopher Booker, writes a column for the Sunday Telegraph each week and is notoriously anti EU, which I applaud, and anti renewables, which causes me to threaten to stop buying the paper most weeks (unfortunately I like their Rugby coverage) and very pro nuclear. In fact he is almost hysterical at times in his objection to wind power.

He is also fervently anti Global Warming, saying that it is the sun that is entirely responsible, so we must carry on with BAU as any reduction in growth cannot be afforded. He is currently latching onto Global Cooling as an ongoing trend quoting current reductions in world temperatures. He doesn't seem to take into account the current El Nino effect, nor the current low point in the Sunspot cycle. The el Nino could change next year and the Sunspot cycle will be getting more intense for the next five or six years, probably leading to increased temperatures.

He doesn't seem to acknowledge Peak Oil at all. I don't know why journalists with no scientific training get so much credence payed to their views.

This article is one of the reasons why I tell people not to install heat pumps and I use Chris Vernon's Electricity Cliff Graph (with acknowledgment) to illustrate why.

(Edited)

[Keepz]

This article is one of the reasons why I tell people not to install heat pumps and I use Chris Vernon's Electricity Cliff Graph (with acknowledgment) to illustrate why.
(Edited)

I trust Chris' graph has been updated to reflect the fact that there is now 8 GW of new generating plant under construction and 40 more in development? National Grid's Seven Year Statement gives the details.

http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/sys%5F08 ... s_Table3_5

What would have been the point of building it before now? We don't need it now. We have a very healthy capacity margin now. We will need it in a few years' time, and a few years' time is when it will be ready.

This is not to say that the article is wrong about people who use the planning system to delay and obstruct the construction of anything and everything. The Government is trying to reform the process so as to make it more streamlined and efficient, and a fat lot of help they are getting.

[adam2]

Computer data centres are pretty important these days. Will they try and keep them up and running?

I doubt that computer data centers will get any special treatment, remember that almost every grid district will contain a data center, or a home kidney machine, or a hospital, or something else important.

Data centers SHOULD have both UPS and diesel backup already, [...]

This is from the Telehouse spec for the Docklands facility - which may be the gold standard which other data centres will fail to match:

6 independent 11kv three phase electrical supplies are provided from 3 separate national grid substations. Standby Generation is provided at N+1 redundancy via diesel engine driven generators.

On-site fuel is stored to maintain full load operation for all generator sets for continuous running of 24 hours. Back up deliveries are available from diverse supply depots.

Uninterruptible Power Supply System (UPS) is available to provide N+1 redundancy for critical computer supplies. The UPS can support the facility for 15 minutes at full load, whilst switching to alternate supply, or standby generation start-up/synchronisation takes place.

Now, I don't know how "grid districts" correspond to "grid substations", are these precise and comparable terminology?
-jmb

A grid district is usually understood to mean one high voltage circuit at 33 or 66KV that supplies a number of 11KV ring mains that in turn supply small substations that step down from 11KV to 230/400 volts for use.
It must said that the term is used somwhat caually and may mean different things to different engineers.

"Grid substation" is generally understood to mean a substation connected directly to the high voltage national grid system, and not to a local substation that steps down from 11KV to 230/400 volts.

The arrangements for the data center reffered to above sound impresive, and IF they work as intended should give good protection against breakdowns/accidents/failures.
As regards planned rota power cuts, I dont think anyone knows what would happen, large data centers were almost unknown last time.
IF the multiple 11KV supplies refered to above come from the same grid district, then they would be dependant on UPS and generator backup during rota cuts.
If however the multiple 11KV supplies come from different grid areas than they should be protected.The biq question is would they be allowed to switch supplies in order to "get round" rota cuts ? or would this be regarded as cheating when "babies and grannies are going cold"

Last time we had rota power cuts, some essiential trades and industries were exempted, this applied only to very large consumers with a dedicated high voltage grid connection.
It was not feasible to exempt essiential users connected to the local distribution network.

[Vortex]

Last time we had rota power cuts, some essential trades and industries were exempted, this applied only to very large consumers with a dedicated high voltage grid connection.

Last time we had major cuts I worked at a biscuit factory.

The huge ovens needed electricity to survive ... if they cooled down the firebrick linings would crack ... game over

The thermal mass of the ovens was huge, so we had several hours of safe time ... but the stress experienced by the managers and workers was major.

No ovens, no job.

There must be quite a few factories with similar problems.

[adam2]

2012 anyone?

2012 Olympics by candlelight?

I believe that the olympics will be largely powered by diesel generating sets, dont have a source for this but I seem to remember reading it in the finance pages.

Aggreko have been given the contract, and theire shares went up when this was announced.

A cynic might suspect that TPTB dont trust the grid?

[energy-village]

I assume the Tories will be in power (excuse the pun) when the lights start going out. So they should have every reason to cooperate in a cross party Emergency Planning Group NOW.

Perhaps a good beginning would be a joint Lab, Tory, LibDem statement acknowledging the problem.

For a starter - Sunday closing anyone?

[adam2]

I assume the Tories will be in power (excuse the pun) when the lights start going out. So they should have every reason to cooperate in a cross party Emergency Planning Group NOW.

Perhaps a good beginning would be a joint Lab, Tory, LibDem statement acknowledging the problem.

For a starter - Sunday closing anyone?

Of shops I presume? not a bad idea though the savings might not be that great since refrigeration would still be needed. And they would probably leave all the lights on, as at present!

Despite the ritual moans from retailers, electricity is still so cheap that most dont bother to save it.
Many shops are still being refurbished with addition of yet more power hungry halogen lamps.

Many shop windows are lit even in direct sunlight, when the lighting, despite consuming many KW, is not even noticed.

And as for pubs and restaurants, anyone would think that there was a law against low energy lamps! And another law against ever turning a light out, no matter how bright the day!

When electricity reaches 50p a unit retailers might bother saving it, but at the moment its often not worth it.

[biffvernon]

I thought Euan Mearns's article about the history of electricity and other energy prices interesting, putting things into some perspective:
http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4134

[adam2]

This rather lengthy document is interesting reading regarding the planning of rota power cuts, and notes the virtual impossibilty of exempting customers that are connected the low voltage network, this includes all domestic and small/medium size bussiness premises.
http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file40466.pdf

Larger premises with a dedicated high voltage grid connection can be exempted, and the procedures for so doing are disscussed.

[RenewableCandy]

For a starter - Sunday closing anyone?

More interestingly, does anyone here remember the concept of midweek Early Closing? Entire towns would shut down of a Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday afternoon. That was alright for me I'd have been studying/working anyway.

[syberberg]

For a starter - Sunday closing anyone?

More interestingly, does anyone here remember the concept of midweek Early Closing? Entire towns would shut down of a Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday afternoon. That was alright for me I'd have been studying/working anyway.

Showin' me age a bit, but yes . Was always a Wednesday where I grew up and the village papershop was open on a Sunday morning, but only until 11am (or there about).

[peaky2]

For a starter - Sunday closing anyone?

More interestingly, does anyone here remember the concept of midweek Early Closing? Entire towns would shut down of a Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday afternoon. That was alright for me I'd have been studying/working anyway.

Yep, ours (Hunstanton in Norfolk) had half day closing on Wednesday. Some places still do.

I can still remember Sunday closing when people wanted to spend their days doing things other than shop ... floats off into daydream