Orchard Farm

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 08 Jun 2008, 07:42

Catweazle wrote:Alert, rabbit detected in vegetable patch, launch the drones.....

My friends in Cornwall who have a large vegetable patch, half of which is occupied by two polytunnels, find that a small Terrier stationed permanently in the field (It has its own very luxurious dog box) is an adequate deterrent against rabbits & other small herbivores. Drones are technological overkill for this problem.

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 08 Jun 2008, 08:49

It's the first time I've read this thread. It just strikes me that this hi-tech wizardry must have a fairly decent resale value, and I'd expect it to be stolen fairly quickly.

All land here ultimately belongs to the state, so there is an inherent 'right to roam', and makes it much easier for the state to repossess it. 5 hectares just up the lane (that was left abandoned for years after being inherited by someone in Milan) has just been taken back by our local comune or council and given to a local family for free. There is a waiting list for land which involves means-testing, held in the comune and works much like allotment waiting lists in the UK.

There are also laws that entitle people who work the land to claim it from the deed-holders. An English holiday home owner has just had 3 hectares taken off him by the contadino who has been looking after their garden for 10 years. It probably sounds horrendous to the English 'Mine, mine, mine' mentality, but I'm firmly all for the 'work it or lose it' land laws.

There's also the Easter Monday picnic tradition. People from the towns come and have picnics in the countryside. It's quite flattering to spot a family of 10 eating between the olive trees. This year they brought a bottle of wine and huge plate of the best polpette I've had up to the house to say thanks.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 08 Jun 2008, 09:17

It just strikes me that this hi-tech wizardry must have a fairly decent resale value, and I'd expect it to be stolen fairly quickly.

Most of it is concealed. And how often do you hear that security cameras etc have been stolen?

There are also laws that entitle people who work the land to claim it from the deed-holders. An English holiday home owner has just had 3 hectares taken off him by the contadino who has been looking after their garden for 10 years.

That is legalised theft.

The land WAS being worked and the gardner HAD been paid for that work.

If I work as a cleaner in a Rolls-Royce showroom for 10 years, do I get a Rolls-Royce or even the showroom itself?

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 08 Jun 2008, 09:21

It would only be theft if Italians owned the land. We don't.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 08 Jun 2008, 09:28

contadino wrote:It would only be theft if Italians owned the land. We don't.

It all sounds most strange to me ... and FULL of scope for corrupt local councils to help their friends ...

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 08 Jun 2008, 10:11

contadino wrote:It would only be theft if Italians owned the land. We don't.

I did not know this. It's very interesting. Do you have any idea about the history of this concept of state ownership? Is it from Roman times? Land ownership seem to have been a central part of the Christianity that spread over Europe from the 800's, and it's extremely interesting to find this deviation in the heartland of Europe.

landyowner · Post by **landyowner** » 08 Jun 2008, 10:29

contadino wrote:It would only be theft if Italians owned the land. We don't.

It is still theft imo, but it is state-approved theft; that does not make it correct.

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 08 Jun 2008, 10:54

MacG wrote:
contadino wrote:It would only be theft if Italians owned the land. We don't.
I did not know this. It's very interesting. Do you have any idea about the history of this concept of state ownership? Is it from Roman times? Land ownership seem to have been a central part of the Christianity that spread over Europe from the 800's, and it's extremely interesting to find this deviation in the heartland of Europe.

I've read different information from different sources. In 1950, the Land Reform Laws confiscated a lot of land from absentee landlords and redistributed it to nearly 200,000 families down here in the south. Il Duce confiscated land from large estates and created state farms before WWII. I've read elsewhere that it dates back to Italy's risorganento at the end of the 18th century.

This might sound like dumb romanticism, but I have over 100 trees that are nearly 1,000 years old, so I'll never feel like I own them. I just look after them for now, until I'm dust when I expect someone else will tend them.

It's only state theft if you think you own the land in the first place. It is far from free of abuse, but I find it better than the 'get orf my land' mindset so prevalent in England.

BTW, I understand that Scotland has a right to roam law. A bunch of friends in Moray ritually have picnics in the gardens of English expats, and target ones with 'Private Land, Keep Out' signs.

Brad · Post by **Brad** » 08 Jun 2008, 12:24

It's only state theft if you think you own the land in the first place. It is far from free of abuse, but I find it better than the 'get orf my land' mindset so prevalent in England.

I can see both sides of this argument I believe that the Italians would have more respect for other peoples' property e.g not leave rubbish behind them or damage fences etc.. than would be case in UK.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 08 Jun 2008, 12:42

BTW, I understand that Scotland has a right to roam law. A bunch of friends in Moray ritually have picnics in the gardens of English expats, and target ones with 'Private Land, Keep Out' signs.

The Politics Of Envy.

You have some sad friends. Racist ones at that.

Do they have decent jobs?

I suppose these are the same people who scratch the paintwork of Rolls-Royces with their keys.

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 08 Jun 2008, 13:02

Vortex wrote:
BTW, I understand that Scotland has a right to roam law. A bunch of friends in Moray ritually have picnics in the gardens of English expats, and target ones with 'Private Land, Keep Out' signs.
The Politics Of Envy.

You have some sad friends. Racist ones at that.

Do they have decent jobs?

I suppose these are the same people who scratch the paintwork of Rolls-Royces with their keys.

Hmmm... Yes, all gainfully employed professionals with a better understanding of their counties laws and history than many incomers.

With your outlook, I can see why you want to build yourself a little fortress and lock yourself away from others.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 08 Jun 2008, 14:08

With your outlook, I can see why you want to build yourself a little fortress and lock yourself away from others.

Hmm .. good fences make good neighbours as they say.

At least I don't admire people who deliberately go out to harass others based on their race or nationality.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 08 Jun 2008, 20:00

contadino wrote:BTW, I understand that Scotland has a right to roam law. A bunch of friends in Moray ritually have picnics in the gardens of English expats, and target ones with 'Private Land, Keep Out' signs.

The whole of the UK has a "right to roam" law, however it only applies to designated land:

"The new rights of access apply to mapped areas of mountain, moor land, down land, heath land and registered common land"

It does not allow people to trespass on private property.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 08 Jun 2008, 21:55

Anyway, let's forget all that politics tosh for a moment.

Our sheep now have the right to roam in their huge new home!

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 08 Jun 2008, 22:20

Lovely pics!