Only 6 - 24 months before the world economy fails ...

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Vortex
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Only 6 - 24 months before the world economy fails ...

Post by Vortex »

According to LATOC, that fount of eternal wisdom, Ken Deffeyes says that our days are extremely numbered ...
while it is still impossible to answer the question of "How much time is left", we might be able to use the price of oil and gas as some rough indicators of where we're at. We're hovering around $125/barrel and $4/gallon right now and already seeing significant slowdowns in the housing, banking, airline and automotive industries. Shutdowns likely begin around $200/barrel and $8/gallon. At $300/barrel and $12/gallon most everything simply stops.

If prices continue to rise at a pace even roughly resembling the trajectory of the past two years, this gives us 6-to-24 months before total shutdown.
Somewhat unlikely I would say ...

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Arc ... tdown.html
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SunnyJim
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Post by SunnyJim »

$300 per barrel? THat only about ?3 per litre for petrol, assuming the goverment keep their taxes at similar percentage to now. Of course they could drop taxes on petrol and reduce the cost of the stuff.

Even so, 60 litres would cost ?180. So using a tank a week would cost you ?180. People pay that now to fill a range rover I would think.

I can't see $300 per barrel stopping everything can you?

Sure alot of planes will be grounded, many will be out of business and food and fuel will be all that anyone can afford, pleasure trips will have ceased to exist and we'll only be able to heat one room in the winter, but hey, you'll still be able to drive to that job (if it's still there), or to tesco to pick up your sack of spuds, some onions and a couple of pieces of belly pork for the month. :wink:
Jim

For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.

"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
MacG
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Post by MacG »

Hmm... Some of these guys are propellerheads, but I suspect that their main problem is timing. The biggest problem for the old propellerhead primadonna Mike Ruppert might indeed be that he was 3-5 years ahead of the curve, while Matt Savinar seems to have a tendency to be 6-9 months ahead of the curve.

It's a bit scary when Kenneth Deffeyes say things like these, because the accuracy of his track record is a bit spooky.
Vortex
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Post by Vortex »

$300 a barrel would cripple UK farmers - and all Americans - as neither has an inbuilt tax buffer for their fuel prices.

The pips would certainly squeak.

I imagine what the oil exporters would do ... probably CUT BACK oil supply and simply collect buckets of money for the little bit they DO export!
MacG
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Post by MacG »

Vortex wrote:I imagine what the oil exporters would do ... probably CUT BACK oil supply and simply collect buckets of money for the little bit they DO export!
The catabolic collapse phase. Bloody scary. And nobody is in control, just a bunch of vested interests looking at their little part of The Machine.

Since the entire Hi-Tech JIT infrastructure would be damaged, so would the capabilities to actually extract oil. Or build a new infrastructure for coal/sun/wind/rail/whatever.
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Totally_Baffled
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Post by Totally_Baffled »

Oh no ! another "we have 2 years to live" prediction!

These are up there with "invasion of Iran in March 2004,2005,2006,2007,2008 etc! predictions.....

Anyone seen an oil bourse....? :wink:
TB

Peak oil? ahhh smeg..... :(
MacG
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Post by MacG »

Totally_Baffled wrote:Oh no ! another "we have 2 years to live" prediction!

These are up there with "invasion of Iran in March 2004,2005,2006,2007,2008 etc! predictions.....

Anyone seen an oil bourse....? :wink:
Ah, don't worry. A little systemic collapse now and then is just refreshing. Zimbabwe and North Korea seems to have healthy population numbers despite some small domestic difficulties. Russia is a bit messier, but I don't think it's entirely fair to compare us with them...
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RogerCO
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Post by RogerCO »

Totally_Baffled wrote: Anyone seen an oil bourse....? :wink:
No, but I've got this Royal Horse:
Image :D
RogerCO
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The time for politics is past - now is the time for action.
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emordnilap
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Post by emordnilap »

RogerCO wrote:
Totally_Baffled wrote: Anyone seen an oil bourse....? :wink:
No, but I've got this Royal Horse:
Image :D
On their wedding night:

"Ah, would you like the bridal suite?"

"No thanks, I'll just hang on to his ears, love."
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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clv101
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Post by clv101 »

Totally_Baffled wrote:Oh no ! another "we have 2 years to live" prediction!

These are up there with "invasion of Iran in March 2004,2005,2006,2007,2008 etc! predictions.....

Anyone seen an oil bourse....? :wink:
Point well made. However after the November election in the US, March 09 is to logical time to invade. Just imagine what would happen to oil prices then!
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J. R. Ewing
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Post by J. R. Ewing »

SunnyJim wrote:
Even so, 60 litres would cost ?180. So using a tank a week would cost you ?180. People pay that now to fill a range rover I would think.
This would sure finish me off. After taxes etc. I bring home around ?245. Doubt if I could keep up with council house rent, council tax, food, etc., etc. on ?65 a week, looks like I'm doomed!!! :(
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mobbsey
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Post by mobbsey »

A bit long, but have a read an see if you've heard this recently:
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5063/

Oh Yeah?: Herbert Hoover Predicts Prosperity

On the morning of October 24, 1929 ("Black Thursday"), billions of dollars in stock value were wiped out before lunch. Prices recovered somewhat that afternoon, but the Great Crash was underway. The next day President Herbert Hoover counseled reassurance, but as stock prices continued to plummet Hoover?s reassurances rang increasingly hollow. The president?s efforts to reassure the public did not stop, in part as he tried to convince voters that his policies were bringing recovery. In 1932, Edward Angly published a short book filled with optimistic forecasts about the economy offered by Hoover and his associates. The sarcastic title, Oh Yeah?, reflected his contempt for political leaders who did not seem to know what was happening to the country. These 17 quotations from or about Herbert Hoover proved that he was a poor prophet of the hard times ahead.

August 11, 1928
"Unemployment in the sense of distress is widely disappearing. . . . We in America today are nearer to the final triumph over poverty than ever before in the history of any land. The poor-house is vanishing from among us. We have not yet reached the goal, but given a change to go forward with the policies of the last eight years, and we shall soon with he help of God be in sight of the day when poverty will be banished from this nation. There is no guarantee against poverty equal to a job for every man. That is the primary purpose of the economic policies we advocate:
?Herbert Hoover, speech accepting the Republican nomination, Palo Alto, California.

September 17, 1928
"When we [the Republican Party] assumed direction of the Government in 1921 there were five to six million unemployed men upon our streets. Wages and salaries were falling and hours of labor increasing. . . . The Republican Administration at once undertook to find relief to this situation. At once a nationwide employment conference was called. . . . Within a year we restored these five million workers to employment. But we did more; we produced a fundamental program which made this restored employment secure on foundation of prosperity; as a result wages and standards of living have during the past six and a half years risen to steadily higher levels.
This recovery and this stability are no accident. It has not been achieved by luck. Were it not for sound governmental policies and wise leadership, employment condition in American today would be similar to those existing in many other parts of the world."
?Herbert Hoover, Campaign Address, Newark, New Jersey

October 22, 1928
"Prosperity is no idle expression. It is a job for every worker; it is the safety and safeguard of very business and every home. A continuation of the policies of the Republican party is fundamentally necessary to the future advancement of this progress and to the further building up of this prosperity."
?Herbert Hoover, Campaign Address, Madison Square Garden

October 6, 1928
"As never before does the keeping of our economic machine in tune depend upon wise policies in the administrative side of the government."
?Herbert Hoover, Campaign Address, Elizabethtown, Tennessee

July 27, 1928
"The outlook of the world today is for the greatest era of commercial expansion in history. The rest of the world will become better customers."
?Herbert Hoover, Speech at San Francisco

November, 1929
"Any lack of confidence in the economic future or the basic strength of business in the United States is foolish."
?Herbert Hoover

January 21, 1930
"Definite signs that business and industry have turned the corner from the he temporary period of emergency that followed deflation of the speculative market were seen today by President Hoover. The President said the reports to the Cabinet showed that the tide of employment had changed in the right direction."
?News dispatch from Washington

March 8, 1930
"President Hoover predicted today that the worst effect of the crash upon unemployment will have been passed during the next sixty days."
?Washington dispatch

May 1, 1930
"While the crash only took place six months ago, I am convinced we have now passed the worst and with continued unity of effort we shall rapidly recover. There is one certainty of the future of a people of the resources, intelligence and character of the people of the United States?that is, prosperity."
?Herbert Hoover, Address at annual dinner of the Chamber of Commerce of the United States

October 2, 1930
"During the past year you have carried the credit system of the nation safely through a most difficult crisis. In this success you have demonstrated not alone the soundness of the credit system, but also the capacity of the bankers in emergency."
?Herbert Hoover, Address before the annual convention of The American Bankers Association, Cleveland

October 20, 1930
"President Hoover today designated Robert P. Lamont, Secretary of Commerce, as chairman of the President?s special committee on unemployment."
?Washington dispatch

October 21, 1930
"President Hoover has summoned Colonel Arthur Woods to help place 2,500,000 persons back to work this winter."
?Washington dispatch

December 1930
"Economic depression cannot be cured by legislative action or executive pronouncement."
?Herbert Hoover, Message to Congress

June 15, 1931
"I am able to propose an American plan to you. . . . We plan more leisure for men and women and better opportunities for its enjoyment. We plan not only to provide for all the new generation, but we shall, by scientific research and invention, lift the standard of living and security of diffusion of wealth, a decrease in poverty and a great reduction in crime. And this Plan Will be Carried Out if We Just Keep on Giving the American People a Chance."
?Herbert Hoover, Address to Indiana Republican Editorial Association, Indianapolis

October 1931
"On September 8, I requested the governors of the Federal Reserve banks to endeavor to secure the co-operation of the bankers of their territory to make some advances on the security of the assets of closed banks or to take over some of these assets, in order that the receivers of those banks may pay some dividends to their depositors in advance of what would otherwise be the case pending liquidation. Such a measure will contribute to free many business activities and to relieve many families from hardship over the forthcoming winter, and in a measure reverse the process of deflation involved in the tying up of deposits."
?Herbert Hoover

October 18, 1931
"The depression has been deepened by events from abroad which are beyond the control either of our citizens or our government."
?Herbert Hoover, Radio address at Fortress Monroe, Virginia

Source: Edward Angly, Oh Yeah! Compiled from Newspapers and Public Records by Edward Angly (New York: Viking Press, 1931), 8?11, 14?17.
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skeptik
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Re: Only 6 - 24 months before the world economy fails ...

Post by skeptik »

If prices continue to rise at a pace even roughly resembling the trajectory of the past two years, this gives us 6-to-24 months before total shutdown.
Why? In 6 to 24 months the world will still be capable of producing eighty something million barrels of oil per day... "Total shutdown" is just uber doomer nonsense.
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SunnyJim
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Post by SunnyJim »

Vortex wrote:$300 a barrel would cripple UK farmers - and all Americans - as neither has an inbuilt tax buffer for their fuel prices.

The pips would certainly squeak.

I imagine what the oil exporters would do ... probably CUT BACK oil supply and simply collect buckets of money for the little bit they DO export!
Farmers would be OK as they would just pass on the prices via the most inelastic commodity of all. Food.
Jim

For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.

"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
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SunnyJim
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Post by SunnyJim »

Totally_Baffled wrote:Oh no ! another "we have 2 years to live" prediction!

These are up there with "invasion of Iran in March 2004,2005,2006,2007,2008 etc! predictions.....

Anyone seen an oil bourse....? :wink:
Here's one.

The only reason America aren't already in Iran is because things haven't gone quite to plan.
Jim

For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.

"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
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