We've had it.

[Vortex]

Having just seen 11th Hour I now realise that we are stuffed.

We simply can't do enough to turn all the convergent problems around in an organised manner.

We will simply wait until bits start dropping off our system ... famines, riots, power cuts ... which will give our masters the opportunity to go all Churchillian on us: States Of Emergency, curfews and all that.

Once THAT starts all bets are off ...

Maybe those survivalists in Idaho or wherever have the right idea ...

Do you REALLY think that that Transition Towns run by white middle class Lib-Dems will save us?

Once the road gets rough, it will be town against country, Moslem against the rest, wide-boy against the mugs ... etc ... etc ...

The only question is WHEN all this kicks off. Certainly within 20 years, maybe 10 or so ...

The only hope is if the USA starts a Manhattan style project ... Europe and the UK certainly haven't got the intestinal fortitude to do it!

Does anyone here REALLY think that I'm wrong?

[Andy Hunt]

Do you REALLY think that that Transition Towns run by white middle class Lib-Dems will save us?

Until and unless someone comes up with a better idea, TT is probably our best hope I would say.

Apart from the Powerswitchers of course . . . the hard core peakoilerati.

TT is rapidly achieving 'popular movement' status - and good luck to them I say.

[MacG]

Does anyone here REALLY think that I'm wrong?

Don't believe everything you see on the TV. It's a brainwashing machine you know.

[Vortex]

Does anyone here REALLY think that I'm wrong?

Don't believe everything you see on the TV. It's a brainwashing machine you know.

Bloody effective

So that's the conclusion then: no problem, just a naughty TV program?

[Vortex]

Until and unless someone comes up with a better idea, TT is probably our best hope I would say.

TTs will help - to a minor, minor degree.

However I wouldn't trust my family's safety, nutrition etc to a Transition Town plan.

Would you?

Really?????

[Andy Hunt]

I'm a Powerswitcher Vortex. A law unto myself . . .



Besides - I have my critical cross-ethnic contact in my neighbourhood now. Between us we can make sure everyone gets their affordable microgen, and I will speak to the council and organise the taking over of our local park for food production. Plenty of gardening expertise in the shape of many pensioners who live in this part of town.

[Vortex]

I have my critical cross-ethnic contact in my neighbourhood now.

That'll get you a grant .. but it might not save you from marauding biker gangs .. or from government stooges who want to 'redistribute ' your veggies.

[Andy Hunt]

The value of having a cross-ethnic contact isn't in getting a grant, it's in the power of community cohesion. This is real stuff that will be happening, on our streets, in our neighbourhood - not on some piece of paper in somebody's office.

If the project to rescue our community is a multi-ethnic enterprise from the word 'go', it will make things a damn sight easier all round, and help us keep together to protect ourselves from biker gangs etc.

[UndercoverElephant]

Having just seen 11th Hour I now realise that we are stuffed.

We simply can't do enough to turn all the convergent problems around in an organised manner.

So there must be a period of chaos.

I watched it too. Some of it was already out of date. But the key point it was saying to me was that the root of the problem is cultural/spiritual. There must be a period of utter chaos, because nothing less will be enough to wake people up, and it must be followed by a change in our cultural/spiritual ideology. The economics and politics can't change until growth-based consumerist capitalism is seen to have failed.

2012?.....bring it on.

[Aurora]

Do you REALLY think that that Transition Towns run by white middle class Lib-Dems will save us?

I'm afraid to say that I have to agree with you.

I admire the TT philosophy but when the going gets tough and the desperate sheeple get hungry and start looking for someone to blame, I don't think a few well meaning happy clappy Lib-Dems are going to cut the mustard.

They'll be too busy trying to protect their own properties and families.

[snow hope]

Vortex, didn't see the 11th hour. But you are not wrong I am afraid.....

Other than the time scale. If we get 10 years before it all kicks off I will be very happy! In fact I would be exstatic if we get 10 years.

[gug]

Do you REALLY think that that Transition Towns run by white middle class Lib-Dems will save us?

I'm afraid to say that I have to agree with you.

I admire the TT philosophy but when the going gets tough and the desperate sheeple get hungry and start looking for someone to blame, I don't think a few well meaning happy clappy Lib-Dems are going to cut the mustard.

They'll be too busy trying to protect their own properties and families.

Surely all the "lone hoarders" and Insular Daily Mail reading types defending their hoards of tins armed with a Frying Pan and a drawbridge mentality will be the ones too busy defending their property.

The successful networks (TT and other) will be their own defence.
Surely the way to beat an attacker is to absorb them and turn them into an ally.

Fight us and gain temporary relief from hunger (assuming we dont kill you first) or join us for our mutual benefit - I know what i'd choose.

Its how we (as a species) became successful.

Depressingly, I read that 4% of the population are natural sociopaths.
The good news is that 96% of us are actually quite nice.

Whilst the peak oil situation is scary (and mostly unknown to most of us (surely the basis of most fears)) - its important not to let your fears dictate the outcome.

The worst case scenario that some envisage is *not* the outcome that is most likely.


EDIT: It maybe important to add, i didnt see the documentary

[RevdTess]

But the key point it was saying to me was that the root of the problem is cultural/spiritual. There must be a period of utter chaos, because nothing less will be enough to wake people up, and it must be followed by a change in our cultural/spiritual ideology. The economics and politics can't change until growth-based consumerist capitalism is seen to have failed.

2012?.....bring it on.

Agree.

[Aurora]

Surely all the "lone hoarders" and Insular Daily Mail reading types defending their hoards of tins armed with a Frying Pan and a drawbridge mentality will be the ones too busy defending their property.

I'm not so sure. Their minor plans (a few tins of baked beans and a wind-up torch) are unlikely to attract much attention. Our plans, on the other hand, are likely to include such things as a well stocked garden, PV and/or solar panels, a wind turbine etc.. All highly visible and all vulnerable to attack.

The successful networks (TT and other) will be their own defence.

Surely the way to beat an attacker is to absorb them and turn them into an ally. Fight us and gain temporary relief from hunger (assuming we dont kill you first) or join us for our mutual benefit - I know what i'd choose.

Fight us and gain temporary relief from hunger (assuming we dont kill you first) or join us for our mutual benefit - I know what i'd choose.

What are you suggesting? A few TT vigilantes roaming the streets of a well provisioned TT stockade? Remember, if things get really bad it won't necessarily be just a few disadvantaged locals that you have to contend with. The cities are likely to empty (assuming that TPTB lose control) and every cold and hungry gang will be headed your way.

Depressingly, I read that 4% of the population are natural sociopaths. The good news is that 96% of us are actually quite nice.

I totally agree but the percentages might change somewhat when TSHTF. In the 1970's when we were forced to live with fuel shortages, rationing and speed limits, tempers began to fray and the polite veneer of British restraint began to peel. I know. I witnessed some of the ugly scenes. A taste of things to come?

I would suggest that once the sheeple really start to appreciate the enormity of our impending situation, there will be panic buying and theft on a grand scale.

It may not turn out to be the slow transition we are all hoping for. One catastrophic failure might just bring the whole sorry system crashing down.

[biffvernon]

Do you REALLY think that that Transition Towns run by white middle class

Of course nobody actually 'runs' a Transition Town but in the case of my local Transition Initiative one of the most enthusiastic activists is black and she's a member of the Green Party.