Could a Transition Town make you a target?

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 13 May 2008, 00:28

Assume you are among a few others and start a Transition Town iniatiative.
All fine and good but it hasn't lit the fire in the belly of the masses. Always the same bunch turn up, a few things get going, mainly 'green' things such as carrier bag demonizing, and so on.
You keep banging on about how people are going to have to adjust to a lower energy future, you tell people they need to take a few precautions, maybe keep a food stash? Make personal arrangements for heating, fresh water, a veg plot, that sort of thing? Just in case, you understand, things get a little heated for a while.
Well, not many people really take it in and do something about it, it's a bit extreme, isn't it?
However, the slide continues and one day alot of people realise they are in serious trouble because they didn't take the simple, basic advice you offered.

I was just wondering, under the above circumstance, where do you think those people will go to get the things they should have taken care of earlier?

energy-village · Post by **energy-village** » 13 May 2008, 00:55

You think that those people who have identified themselves as having made preparations could become a target? It's possible but I don't think it will be like that.

If the crash is ultra sudden I can't see people looking for bags of carrots and books on permaculture; they'll be busy rioting, siphoning petrol out of cars and looting the shops for any valuables they can find. On the other hand if it is more of a gradual slide into recession and long-term depresssion I suspect people will drift to any organisations that seem to offer support and solutions; including the local Transition Town iniatiative

Post by **adam2** » 15 May 2008, 11:10

Those who have prudently prepared might well be a target if they are considered to be hoarding.
For this reason I advise keeping your preps private so far as possible, if like me you disscuss them on the internet then I urge keeping your physical address private.

Growing your own food can not really be kept secret, but I would suggest having a well hidden stash of grain, nuts, dried fruit or other non perishables as a reserve in case of theft/looting.
Any such stash should be well away from any obvious storage shed or barn.

Large PV installations cant really be hidden, though if considering a new installation, PV modules that look like roofing slates are available.
Keep a couple of spare PV modules well hidden for future use.

Fuel tanks can be hidden, though a lot of work is involved.

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 15 May 2008, 11:19

The entire human experience trough history is that people ONLY exist as group members. The larger groups usually have advantages over smaller groups. In order to run a larger group you usually have to have better organization. The last visible organizational step was "the national state", but I suspect that "the global monetary system" has succeeded that one now.

So, in short, if things break down, in order to survive we have to invent some organizational structures allowing us to function in groups. Maybe small groups, maybe large groups, maybe even a global village, but group it will be.

Eternal Sunshine · Post by **Eternal Sunshine** » 17 May 2008, 22:30

I agree - our only chance is to work together in communites. There was a small piece on "group resilience" in April's Ecologist - "informal networks .... may be crutial in helping people adapt to the challenges of peak oil and climate change".

However, there will be exceptions, and some "communities" will not be as nice as others. Mob mentality can be frightening (I was horrified when watching the footage of the Greater Manchester police man getting attacked by the Rangers fans).

Maybe the thing to do is to try to live in a community you believe is capable of working together to find solutions to the problems we will face.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 17 May 2008, 22:38

Eternal Sunshine wrote: (I was horrified when watching the footage of the Greater Manchester police man getting attacked by the Rangers fans).

I saw the Rangers fans, they all changed trains at York station when I was on my way somewhere. They seemed OK at the time. Lively, yes, but not scary. Perhaps I'm just not scared easily enough?

Now Zenit fans...

Eternal Sunshine · Post by **Eternal Sunshine** » 17 May 2008, 22:51

RenewableCandy wrote: Perhaps I'm just not scared easily enough?

You'd be scared if they had tripped you up & 20 or more piled on top of you kicking and hitting you for no reason other than you're "not one of them". Maybe you didn't see the news report.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 17 May 2008, 23:17

Yer right I didn't. And of course the guys at York station hadn't yet seen their team getting gubbed by a bunch of Ruskies. The fact that footie fans whose team has lost are much more dangerous than any others, frankly, is not a good omen for PO really izzit...

Eternal Sunshine · Post by **Eternal Sunshine** » 17 May 2008, 23:23

I feel the village I live in right now would be a good place to be, post PO. It's the kind of place where people say hello in the street, nice kids (mainly), little crime or vandalism, plenty of land that could be turned over to food production, several other similar villages nearby for trading goods and ideas. Probably the main problem post peak here would be that we're only 5 miles from a (smallish) city.

Also, we're likely to be under sea water in 75 years.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 17 May 2008, 23:29

Eternal Sunshine wrote: Also, we're likely to be under sea water in 75 years.

You'll outlast us, then!

Eternal Sunshine · Post by **Eternal Sunshine** » 17 May 2008, 23:32

I was thinking more about my children & their children, etc.

Erik · Post by **Erik** » 17 May 2008, 23:34

Let's assume that being involved in a Transition Town initiative or similar WILL make you a target in a post PO world... what difference does it make? The other option is what exactly?
We have to choose between:

a) Making personal preparations and trying to get the wider community involved too, or
b) Just not bothering.

Option a) might feel naively optimistic at times, but it can also provide you with moments of hope and indeed the rewards of learning new skills etc.. If you know about PO and you still insist on taking the option b) route, it simply means that you're getting ready to go on the rampage with all the others once the SHTF.

Either way, if you think that things are going to get REALLY SHAUN-OF-THE-DEAD NASTY in the future then survival hopes have little to do with whether or not you're in a Transition Town. In the meantime, before the SHTF, you have to decide how to live your life (and contribute to society) as best as you can.

energy-village · Post by **energy-village** » 18 May 2008, 00:10

Eternal Sunshine wrote:Mob mentality can be frightening (I was horrified when watching the footage of the Greater Manchester police man getting attacked by the Rangers fans).

Yes, that bit was ugly. Though I was in Manchester at the time and for the most part there was a wonderful carnival atmosphere for 24 hours. There had only been 8 arrests by 7pm on the day of the match (minor stuff).

Some estimated the number of Rangers fans as anything between 150,000 and 200,000. I doubt more than a few hundred caused trouble; possibly they travelled down just looking for such an opportunity/excuse. Yep, they were a disgrace.

I'm not Scottish but I would say the vast majority did Glasgow and Scotland proud.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 18 May 2008, 08:47

Erik wrote:Let's assume that being involved in a Transition Town initiative or similar WILL make you a target in a post PO world... what difference does it make? The other option is what exactly?
We have to choose between:

a) Making personal preparations and trying to get the wider community involved too, or
b) Just not bothering.

Option a) might feel naively optimistic at times, but it can also provide you with moments of hope and indeed the rewards of learning new skills etc.. If you know about PO and you still insist on taking the option b) route, it simply means that you're getting ready to go on the rampage with all the others once the SHTF.

Either way, if you think that things are going to get REALLY SHAUN-OF-THE-DEAD NASTY in the future then survival hopes have little to do with whether or not you're in a Transition Town. In the meantime, before the SHTF, you have to decide how to live your life (and contribute to society) as best as you can.

Well said Erik!

.... If things go "nasty" then each of us survives on the roll of the dice

Our preps might weight the outcome for us; then again they may have no effect at all. The unpredictability of a social breakdown would leave no individual secure - anywhere. So I'd rather not dwell on that outcome for longer than is necessary .....

... If things move gracefully down to a new way of life (well we gotta hope) then the things we do now can have a positive effect on both ourselves and those around us. And this second option is so much more satisfying in the present moment! It gives me something constructive to work on and some hope for the futures of me and mine.

So I prefer to put forward a naively optimistic front - the realist inside my head is best left dormant for now!

Smithy · Post by **Smithy** » 18 May 2008, 11:01

I believe we have to have a go at finding a solution, and that will include forming connections with local people. What we will have is knowledge, which no one can take away...

TTH page 94 : Chapter 7

Harnessing the power of a positive vision "The optimism/pessimism trap.
... I've begun to notice how the whole optimism/pessimism dichotomy is a
death trap for my aliveness and attention. ... Whether I expect the best
or the worst, my expectations interfere with my will to act. I've
started viewing both optimism and pessimism as spectator sports, as
forms of disengagement masquerading as involvement."

etc