Transition Culture going nowhere(so I'm told)

Nicko · Post by **Nicko** » 09 May 2008, 13:24

Went to a meeting last night in which one person told us all that TT will go nowhere, it is just an excuse for a load of greenies to sit in a room talking. Things that will make a real difference are initiatives like Eco towns.
He was in complete denial about Peak oil. He told us that people will pay anything to drive their cars, and by the time oil is running out other technology will have taken over.
Luckily there were a few people at the meeting educated in hydrogen technology who managed to put him right on a few issues.
He didn't have any alternatives for pursuading people to change their behaviour and insisted that you cannot change peoples behaviour.

We steered the conversation in a different direction after his declarations, and started talking about things like recycling, and free range chicken, and low energy light bulbs, and a few other things where people have willing changed their behaviour.
We then went on to talk about permaculture which the person in question thought was a great concept, 'making a resource out of a problem - great idea'.
The meeting ended with the fellow admitting that he agreed that peoples behaviour needed to change, but he really doesn't like the term 'Transition Town'. I suggested that we need not mention it again and that we should maybe just concentrate on what might be right for our town in terms of initiatives to help people cope with the twin problems of peak oil and climate change. He thought that a good idea.

Do you think he was having his 'End of Suburbia' moment right there in that meeting?

Nicko

oilslick · Post by **oilslick** » 09 May 2008, 13:30

Errm, you don't say what sort of meeting...Capitalists Anonymous? Heathrow Expansion Support Group? Urban 4x4 Owner Club?

Nicko · Post by **Nicko** » 09 May 2008, 22:08

Can't really say exactly what meeting.
Lets just say it is a group that have environmental and social concerns at the heart of their beliefs, and this guy is a long standing member.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 09 May 2008, 22:19

DEFRA?

Nicko · Post by **Nicko** » 09 May 2008, 22:26

Ha Ha Ha

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 09 May 2008, 22:58

It's inevitable there will be differences in how to approach the problem. I think that the problem probably needs as many different approaches as possible.

At the end of the day, TT has done absolutely loads to bring these issues to people's attention and start people thinking about what could be done about them. I doubt whether anyone could seriously argue that that is a bad thing.

There's nothing like a bit of friendly competition to bring out the best in people . . . I don't think we can afford to ditch anybody's idea until all these problems have been solved - different people like different approaches.

Nicko · Post by **Nicko** » 09 May 2008, 23:12

I agree Andy.
I just thought I would share because it was my first experience of someone in complete denial of peak oil. A normally calm and collected person grasping at straws to try and avoid even considering the associated problems.

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 09 May 2008, 23:23

Andy Hunt wrote:It's inevitable there will be differences in how to approach the problem. I think that the problem probably needs as many different approaches as possible.

Spot on! The ONLY way out of this mess is trough extensive experimentation. It's impossible to think up solutions using rigorous analytical scientific methods. Wild experimentation is the only way - solutions will be discovered in totally unexpected places.

The only way to encourage wild experimentation is trough D_E___R_E_G_U_L_A_T_I_O_N.

We are regulated to death right now. That's why small whimpers like "transition towns" are the only game in town. The approach is completely inoffensive, and indeed impotent. Lot's of hot air and writing, but that's about it. It's the only move allowed...

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 09 May 2008, 23:38

Has anyone considered what TPTB currently think about TT?

It would seem to me that when TSHTF and folks start to panic, our glorious leaders will sweep aside any prospect of 'democratic local control' in favour of a more, how shall I say, jack-booted authoritarian stance.

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 09 May 2008, 23:51

Aurora wrote:Has anyone considered what TPTB currently think about TT?

It would seem to me that when TSHTF and folks start to panic, our glorious leaders will sweep aside any prospect of 'democratic local control' in favour of a more, how shall I say, jack-booted authoritarian stance.

Only if they can find a way to feed and arm the goons who are supposed to enforce it. The food bowl is a mighty weapon. No feed - no fight.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 09 May 2008, 23:52

Nicko wrote:someone in complete denial of peak oil

You know, he's always driven quite large cars...

Smithy · Post by **Smithy** » 12 May 2008, 21:50

I've recently read The Transition Handbook by Rob Hopkins, and here's a quote from the forward by Richard Heinburg

"Rob Hopkins has grasped all of this in the Transition formula, and made it one that any community can enthusiastically buy into. Using Permaculture principles, the psychology of social marketing, and inclusive processes like 'open space', he has found a way for people worried about an environmental apocalypse to invest their efforts in ongoing collective action that ends up looking more like a party than a protest march."

It's an exciting possibility presenting options which people can look forward to and hence actively work towards. And with over 500 initiatives (eg. towns) in the process I wouldn't say it's ineffective...

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 13 May 2008, 21:27

From Orlov Stages Of Collapse:

Stage 4: Social collapse. Faith that "your people will take care of you" is lost, as local social institutions, be they charities or other groups that rush in to fill the power vacuum run out of resources or fail through internal conflict.

TTs could experience such a failure. Splitters!

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 13 May 2008, 21:48

What I've seen, the "transition" thing look pretty much like the embryo of an old East German five-year plan. Give them some resources and encouragement and they will micro-manage just about everything in town. And the outcome will be just as miserable as in East Germany.

I happen to think that it's impossible to micro-manage things, at least if you want some kind of positive outcome.

If we want to find a way forward without fossil energy, I think it's important to do some serious soul-seeking and find a very limited set of basic rules, and then leave the tinier technical details for people to sort out by themselves.

Something like "The 10 commandments - V 2.0"

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 14 May 2008, 08:50